In other words "Please go read our stacks and stacks of claims that we've been unable to prove for 1500 years and had to resort to other means to sell.." With all due respect, your chatting with people who in many cases could beat you to the draw doing cut and pastes from CE and the like. Hopefully we don't come off as flippant; but, we've been here a year in these discussions and as I've stated, I've studdied it since 1988. Some of the stuff you're quoting was shredded and ended up on the rubbage heap 6-8 months ago and I realize that puts you at a major handicap; but, there it is. If I seem to jump on you, call me on it. But, do yourself a favor and don't start winging charges of bigotry and prejudice as a last resort when you can't defend your ground. And don't think you can sell CE to ex-catholics, the which you are trying to do in some cases, though not in mine. I won't say they'll hand you your butt literally; but, doctrinally ...