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To: DouglasKC
To unpack this, I would want to begin with the word "command" and the word "commandments" and how they relate to the Hebrew word "torah" and the understand of God's commandments as "Teaching" or "Instruction" rather than legal code.

I normally read the New Testament in Arabic because of my work. For example, in the Arabic translation of "Joh 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him." if I were to translate back into English it would read "He who holds fast to what I have taught you and thereby lives out my teaching, he is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me, My Father will love, and I will love him and manifest myself to him." This sense is really throughout the New Testament in Arabic, Hebrew or the very old Syriac and Chaldean lectionaries in Aramaic and Chaldean.

I know this must sound like it is coming from another planet, but it is a way of thinking that is as old as the Negev. In short, the New Testament references to obeying or obedience to commandments could just as easily be translated differently -- as they in fact are in most Semitic and north African languages. And I would underscore that the Torah of God is not so much a legal code for men as it is a divine instruction to God's people that is fulfilled and manifested in earnest in Jesus Christ.

2,195 posted on 04/08/2002 8:54:13 PM PDT by father_elijah
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To: father_elijah
I normally read the New Testament in Arabic because of my work.

Yours must be a fascinating story! How did you ever happen to find Free Republic?

2,210 posted on 04/08/2002 9:42:02 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: father_elijah
And I would underscore that the Torah of God is not so much a legal code for men as it is a divine instruction to God's people

Yes.

I delight to do thy will, O my God;
thy law is within my heart." (Psalm 40:8)

that is fulfilled and manifested in earnest in Jesus Christ.

On this, of course, I disagree with you.

2,212 posted on 04/08/2002 9:50:40 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: father_elijah
To unpack this, I would want to begin with the word "command" and the word "commandments" and how they relate to the Hebrew word "torah" and the understand of God's commandments as "Teaching" or "Instruction" rather than legal code. I normally read the New Testament in Arabic because of my work. For example, in the Arabic translation of "Joh 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him." if I were to translate back into English it would read "He who holds fast to what I have taught you and thereby lives out my teaching, he is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me, My Father will love, and I will love him and manifest myself to him." This sense is really throughout the New Testament in Arabic, Hebrew or the very old Syriac and Chaldean lectionaries in Aramaic and Chaldean. I know this must sound like it is coming from another planet, but it is a way of thinking that is as old as the Negev. In short, the New Testament references to obeying or obedience to commandments could just as easily be translated differently -- as they in fact are in most Semitic and north African languages. And I would underscore that the Torah of God is not so much a legal code for men as it is a divine instruction to God's people that is fulfilled and manifested in earnest in Jesus Christ.

Excuse me. No kid gloves - I've read the greek. Not one of the state of being words used in the original text intones or suggests love or is derived from the same root. In short, you're running to another translation to find something that isn't in the original text. It's bad enough that followers err in such matters - you, sir, claim to stand in a pulpit. And to that end you're telling me that you're teaching even now, philosophy rather than what the actual scripture says. If you'd like, I can post all the Greek words tomorrow. I'm a bit fired up right now and I'm restraining myself as much as I can from going off. But I'd appreciate greatly as a man of God an explanation for such a thing. It may be an interesting notion; but, it isn't what the scriptures say. Difference - one is God's word being taught and the other is not.

So I'll give you a chance to respond. And I'll hold my temper for the moment. But, I'll tell you this for nothing. I've little respect for anyone that stands in a pulpit representing God and sells philosophy instead of scripture. And it appears to me based on your prior posts that this is precisely what you're doing. If that be the case, God help you. If not, good for you. I'll let you respond.

2,215 posted on 04/08/2002 10:04:40 PM PDT by Havoc
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To: father_elijah
To unpack this, I would want to begin with the word "command" and the word "commandments" and how they relate to the Hebrew word "torah" and the understand of God's commandments as "Teaching" or "Instruction" rather than legal code.
I normally read the New Testament in Arabic because of my work. For example, in the Arabic translation of "Joh 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him." if I were to translate back into English it would read

That's an interesting way to interpet. But with the passage I quoted from Romans:

Rom 13:9 For: "Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not lust;" and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

There is no question as to what the word translated "commandment" is referring to. No ambiguity. Paul defines love for your neighbor as consisting of those commandments of God. You gotta agree with that... :-)

2,229 posted on 04/09/2002 5:35:47 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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