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To: Havoc
What then becomes the issue is whether anything you state out of hand as tradition is proveable in scripture - so far it's been shown that is not the case and decidedly so. It's not a matter of interpretation. It's a matter of playing smorgesboard with the scripture - picking and choosing what you'll believe and leaving the rest as though it is of no import. The danger there is that you are responsible for all of it whether you choose to believe any of it at all. As I've said time and again - Jesus stated that the Word will judge you in the end - not tradition, not what you choose to believe of philosophy, not your logical constructs, and not your man made doctrines - the Word.

Yes, Christ did say the word will judge us. But you conviently ignore what was also said in regards to tradition and of words not specifically spoken:

I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you - 1 Cor 11:2

Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us - 2 Tim 1:13-14

First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God - 2 Peter 1:20-21

Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book. But these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God: and that believing, you may have life in his name - John 20: 30-31

Thou therefore, my son, be strong in Christ Jesus: And the things which thou hast heard of me by many witnesses, the same commend to faithful men who shall be fit to teach others also - 2 Tim 2:2 (DRB)

So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter - 2 Thess 2:15 (DRB)

What do you think Paul was saying there? That much of what Christians are and will be taught is to be handed down by word of mouth - tradition.

What has been presented by Catholics as tradition on TNS and been proved in Scripture is here for folks to see. And for some reason, that makes you mad.

3,336 posted on 04/10/2002 2:00:07 PM PDT by Fury
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To: Fury
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter - 2 Thess 2:15 (DRB)

should be 2:14. Sorry for the typo...

3,347 posted on 04/10/2002 2:05:41 PM PDT by Fury
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To: Fury
guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us - 2 Tim 1:13-14

Thanks, I think this verse addresses what we're talking about in a particularly important way. What is of critical importance is "the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit." This truth is not and cannot be contained only in a book, no matter how holy and God-inspired. This truth is the whole Way of the Christian. The difference between traditional Christian faith and bible-only Christian faith is that the former presumes that this Way has been guarded as Paul asked, and that we have access to it, and the latter presumes that it hasn't, and that we only have access to the Scriptures to teach us what it is.

3,353 posted on 04/10/2002 2:12:30 PM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: Fury
Yes, Christ did say the word will judge us.

That’s refreshing to hear from a Catholic, or did you have exceptions in mind?

But you conviently ignore what was also said in regards to tradition and of words not specifically spoken:
I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you - 1 Cor 11:2

Paul said thank you for remembering the traditions he gave them, not traditions they picked up from a friend or a relative.

Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us - 2 Tim 1:13-14

Again, Paul told them to follow the sound words which he gave them, and in doing so, they were trusting in the Holy Spirit with in themselves.

First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God - 2 Peter 1:20-21

Peter said, that no “prophesy” is a matter of ones private interpretation” this is talking about “prophesy”, not interpreting scripture.
No man can properly explain prophesy unless God reveals it to him.

Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book. But these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God: and that believing, you may have life in his name - John 20: 30-31

The disciples witnessed many other signs, but if they don’t tell you what they were, you will never know them. Who else was a disciple of Christ, that told us anything that wasn’t written in the scripture?

Thou therefore, my son, be strong in Christ Jesus: And the things which thou hast heard of me by many witnesses, the same commend to faithful men who shall be fit to teach others also - 2 Tim 2:2 (DRB)

I don’t get it Fury, what don’t you understand? Paul said don’t believe, or teach anything that is claimed to have been said by Paul, unless you have many witnesses back it up.

So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter 2 Thess 2:15 (DRB)

Again, I don’t get it, Paul clearly said the traditions that were taught by us, (the apostles) either verbally or that they wrote in a letter. What’s hard to understand here?

What do you think Paul was saying there? That much of what Christians are and will be taught is to be handed down by word of mouth - tradition.(Only the traditions he gave them, and there is no hint that these traditions could come from anyone other then Paul.)

What has been presented by Catholics as tradition on TNS and been proved in Scripture is here for folks to see. And for some reason, that makes you mad.

Fury, if this is an example of your discerning powers, I can’t wait to see your writings on Peter.

Feel free to go through what I have paraphrased, and correct it with your interpretation.

JH

3,382 posted on 04/10/2002 2:59:03 PM PDT by JHavard
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