The Mass of Vatican II

Catholic Dossier ^ | REV. JOSEPH FESSIO S.J.

[Askel5]

Something I shall remember when I'm in the loft at the Latin Mass.

Thanks for the heads up.

[Askel5]

Thanks for the post, Nick.

[Askel5]

If you sing the Psalms at Mass with the Gregorian tones, you are as close as you can get to praying with Jesus and Mary. They sang the Psalms in tones that have come down to us today in Gregorian Chant.

Your beliefs about the Catholic Church are in no way founded in fact and seem shaped instead by the media and agit-prop. Until you evidence any concrete knowledge of the Church, it's better to keep your mouth closed rather than to open it and remove all doubt you're a fool.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Deo gratias.

Thanks for posting this.

[berned]

Well, I was born and raised Roman Catholic. Everyone else in my family, except me, is a Roman Catholic back to every generation that we know of. I went to Parochial school K-12, was an altar boy, first communion, confirmation...

It was only when I graduated from Catholic school, and began to actually read the Bible that I came to know Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I watched as every one of my friends from Catholic school, drifted away from God, to where now, the only time they think of God at all is Easter and Christmas. (Same with my family)

Additionally, I've done considerable reading about the Roman Catholic Church. As to your incorrect assertion that I am affected by "media hype", anyone who knows me from my four years here at FR knows that I don't trust the media for ANY kind of truth.

So I'd say I know quite a bit about Roman Catholicism. I understand your anger and your need to appear to be dismissive of me and what I have to say. It doesn't deter me in the slightest from speaking the truth about the Vatican, any more than the anger from my liberal friends stops me from speaking out about the Clinton years.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

You've now removed all doubt. Catholics do read the Bible and in fact, have more Bible readings during the Mass than most non Catholic services. If you had ever been Catholic you would have known that. But you haven't been. Another classic fundamentalist trick. Maybe if you actually spent more time reading your Bible you would know about bearing false witness. You people are getting so tedious and pathetic.

[saradippity]

Thanks for the "ping". Father Fessio reflects my thoughts exactly,expands them with knowledge,intelligence and holiness and then expresses them with clarity.

I think I will print this article out and send it to the "Liturgical Terrorist" and her comrades at the Chancery.

I think just some Gregorian Chant and turning the priest to face the East with us would greatly strengthen us and enhance the efficacy of the Mass. I also think encouraging our bishops to return to praying the prayer of St. Michael would be helpful in combatting the iniquities that have penetrated deep into the heart of the Church.

[berned]

Bearing false witness is a sin. You appear to be calling me a liar for telling you the truth about my life! I urge you in the strongest terms, not to sin in this way.

My church does 5 to 8 baptisms a week, where the person is immersed in a tank. Before they are baptised, they give their testimony about how they came to be saved and to know Jesus Christ as their Savior. The most common tesitmony by far, is that of people who were raised Roman Catholic, then after a living life without knowing God in a real, personal way, began to read the Bible and came to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. My conversion is an extremely common one.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

You'll pay a price someday for your deceit.

[berned]

Are you saying that people do not convert from Roman Catholicism to Fundamentalist Christians? Are you calling me a liar for telling the truth?

[Theresa]

"The most common tesitmony by far, is that of people who were raised Roman Catholic, then after a living life without knowing God in a real, personal way, began to read the Bible and came to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. My conversion is an extremely common one."

Okay lemme see. Here are these people, raised Catholic then drifted away. Now why did they drift away? I think a lot of times (not ALWAYS but I bet in many cases) it's because of becoming a teenager and all the experiementation and rebellion that goes with it. Then on to college and young adulthood and giving in to the temptations of illicit sex, divorce and other sins that result in a even greater breech with God and the Church and even more neglect of one's spiritual life. Happens quite a bit to people in their 20's and 30's.

Then one day these people are older and wiser and decide they need to settle down and tend to their souls. A good thing! Along comes an Evangelical and off they go with him to an Evangelical Church just to see what it is like. Well it's great because Hey you don't have to go to Confession and confess 20 years worth of sins and the fact that they you are on your third marriage. (Things the Catholic Church certainly did not make them do!)

And so they find God. (Again a good thing.) But they start to look back for reasons why they lost him. Not wanting to blame themselves for their drifting away from Jesus in the first place, they decide they never knew him at all and this was not THEIR fault, it was the fault of the Catholic Church.

My speculation, and it is just that, is that hardly anyone leaves the Catholic Church while in the state of grace, that is, while living a virtuous and godly life as fully participating, practicing Catholic. They drift out because of sin and forget that is why they left, then blame the Church for not bringing them close to God. But the fact is they closed THEMSELVES to God or they would not have left because God and Jesus are right there in the Catholic Church!

[Theresa]

" So then they "find Jesus," join a fundamentalist church, and then become vitriolically anti-Catholic by way of self-justification."

This happens a lot. I know a woman on her third marriage who was raised Catholic, became Fundamentalist and is totally anti-Catholic now. Wonder why?

[Theresa]

"The most common tesitmony by far, is that of people who were raised Roman Catholic, then after a living life without knowing God in a real, personal way, began to read the Bible and came to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior."

A Catholic can partake of the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, in the Eucharist, every single day. (There are daily masses.) If that is not a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I don't know what is.

[St.Chuck]

You're like a reformed smoker. Your contempt for your past will fade away. You will come to the realization that preaching to the smokers won't change a thing. They have to have a very strong desire to quit and Free Republic is not very fertile ground to convert THESE smokers.

[nickcarraway]

Bump

[Theresa]

"Are you saying that people do not convert from Roman Catholicism to Fundamentalist Christians? Are you calling me a liar for telling the truth?"

Hey I know it happens. But it also happens that people from other denominations convert to Catholic. Happens everyday! My point is your proof does not prove anything. I mean if are you are trying to prove that Catholics don't love God, and you do, you did not do it.

[ventana]

I have been actively working to defeat a pro-homosexual catechism in my daughter's Catholic school. In the study of it and the study of catechisms generally, and specifically the catechism of the Archdiocese of New York and its guidelines, I have come to the conclusion that many renegade Bishops are failing to pass on the faith to young people in a way that conforms with the actual Catechism of the Catholic church and the directives of the Pope.

The failure can be tied to what they teach as well as what they fail to teach: A true understanding of the Sacraments; A well-presented history of the Faith; An understanding of the Ten commandments and the Beatitudes which leads to a fulfilling understanding of why our Catechism says what it says. Instruction in the Virtues. Instuction in the Deadly Sins. Catholic Apologetics. In short, the catechism of the last twenty five years, post Vatican Two, post Baltimore Catechism, if done following the guidelines of the Archdiocese of New York and other Archdiocese, reads like a disinformation campaign!

I will guess berned that you are under the age of forty and were not instructed in the old Baltimore Catechism, same for your friends and family. Additionally, goldenstategirl, we need to understand why we have the situation we have and extend a little charity, for they know not why they do what they do. My challenge to you berned is this: go out and get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic church issued by John Paul 2nd in 1996. Read it and you will have a true understanding of the Catholic Church, and not what a bunch of dissident Bishops wanted you to think. It's the same analogy as reading the Constitution and the writings of the founding fathers to get a true sense of what was intended as opposed to relying on the NEA and whatever reading material they now think relevant. Give it a shot and keep an open mind. V's wife.

[ventana]

BTW, perhaps I will get around to posting some passages from the Archdiocese of New York's Catechism intended for Confirmation candidates. I think its section on Human Sexuality (which has to do with?????regarding confirmation) would be an eye-opener. And a primer in understanding the ways and means in which Catholic youth are driven from the faith by ignorance and propaganda! V's wife.

[berned]

In post #23, Askel5 accused me of holding the beliefs that I do about the Vatican with no knowledge of Roman Catholicism.

So, in post # 25, I explained to him honestly, about having been born and raised Roman Catholic, as has everyone in my family, having attended parochial school, etc.

Then, in post #26, goldenstategirl accused me of lying about my own life story! So I then told the truth about the baptisms in my church. I didn't offer any editorial comments. It's just the truth! The single most common testimony in my church of people who come to know Jesus as their Savior, is that they were born and raised Catholics.

Now all of you attack the saving grace of Jesus Christ, saying that people only accept Jesus Christ as Lord in order "To get divorced". I stongly urge you not to do this.