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1 posted on 05/29/2002 7:49:02 PM PDT by xzins
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To: Corin Stormhands; fortheDeclaration; winstonchurchill; ShadowAce; P-Marlowe; Revelation 911...
Bumping to all non-robots.

God is a God of Love. He desires ALL to be SAVED!!

2 posted on 05/29/2002 7:50:38 PM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
Is Philip Schaff one of your heroes???

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...The corresponding American revision committee which developed the American Standard Version of 1901 was headed by another liberal evolutionist, Philip Schaff. Most new versions since that time have adopted the same presuppositions as did those 19th century revisers. Schaff was twice tried for heresy by his denomination and taught at the very liberal Union Seminary. As chairman of the revision committee, Schaff not only was greatly influenced by Westcott and Hort, but also by the Unitarians Ezra Abbot and Joseph Thayer, of Harvard, as well as other liberals whom he placed on the committee.

11 posted on 05/29/2002 9:06:09 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: xzins
But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men to myself. John 12:32
15 posted on 05/30/2002 12:06:50 AM PDT by Theresa
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To: xzins
What a shallow article....this is an embarrassment for Arminianism.
17 posted on 05/30/2002 12:41:58 AM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: xzins
This is what I e-mailed the author (I am not too excited he brainwashed people by putting his article in the town newspaper either):

I just want to respond to your anti-Calvinist statement on your website.

You claim man is made in God's image even to this very day. How is this possible after the Fall? God and man are estranged. Man is "enslaved to sin," according to the NT. He can not even know the truth because he does not have the Holy Spirit and the truth of the Gospel is "spiritually discerned." Obviously, this puts a screw into free will since nobody could choose God, which is not very fair at all. I have not provided passage citations in my haste here, but you can find that by doing a concordance search online or with software.

I am not going to spend a long amount of time here. But, I will ask how anyone could believe in free will if it is God's will to save all as a first/easy glance at Scriptural texts seem to show? Going beyond, it is clear that such texts don't support that in the slightest, but if they did, it would mean God is a failure. We know throughout Scripture that God is NOT a failure and is able to accomplish his will. So maybe that is why in John Jesus only prayed at the Garden for those God gave him. Maybe that is why the Book of Life was written from the "foundation of the world." Maybe that is why we are said to be predestined several times in the NT. And maybe that is why Romans 9 says the potter has power over the clay, not the other way around.

Arminianism is exclusive. If you are an Arminian, you believe people have the opportunity to choose their salvation or reject it of their own free (I wonder where God said the Fall won't affect us anymore....any passages?) will. Thus, some folks were essentially "intelligent" enough to choose God, while the other dummies couldn't stop sinning. Of course you don't actually believe this, but it is an ultimate outcome of Arminianism theology...the exaltation of man because some were able to come to Christ and others didn't "get it." Arminians claim this is fair. I wonder how exactly. It doesn't seem very fair to me. However, Calvinism sets up two groups as well. But, this time it is based on GOD'S NEVER-FAILING AND PERFECT WILL. It is not based on the whim of man, which can be altered in the scheme of Arminianism if someone doesn't evangelize the right person at the exact and perfect moment. With Calvinism, simply the Gospel, you have God calling the shots having his Spirit come and rescue his elect. The two groups are formed by God's righteous act. The two groups are formed without any exaltation because one person was "smarter" than another to use "free will." Some Arminians will claim Calvinism is prideful because some are chosen and others get ignored. Well, I see Calvinism as expressing God's power and great mercy, but I also recognize that Calvinism, like all systems, can be perverted and I am sure some people (perhaps myself even), have sometimes gotten a bit puffed up and superior thinking they are better than the guy next door who was not predestined to salvation. But, I would say this: I am firmly set in a belief that the real driving force that comes out of Calvinism is not pride, but humility. To think that God would come and choose me over someone else should give one a lot to pause and ponder...and kiss the feet of the Son for.

My last point (I am not doing a big rebuttal, just trying to raise some issues here) is that Arminianism is what a baby Christian believes (like myself) since he knows no better. Eventually, some will come to Calvinism, while others stay in Arminianism. The Arminians, when debating, always have to look at what THEY perceived their salvation to be like, what THEY experienced, what THEY think about how predestination makes God look. On the other hand, the Calvinist looks to God. We aren't looking at what we think happened in salvation or we would be Arminian, too. We simply look to the Bible, see him say we couldn't choose him and so we were predestined, and we believe it (of course we also use some logic in defending it and explaining this Scripture). What else can we do when it comes to a God that brought us back from the grave????

Blessings in the Lord.

Sincerely,

Roy Waggoner

20 posted on 05/30/2002 1:59:49 AM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: xzins; RnMomof7; Jean Chauvin; OrthodoxPresbyterian
You are turning out to be a gross disappointment. Your little comment about the Calvinist trinity- not funny. Can you picture yourself telling the same to Jesus? After you have attacked people who are supposed to be your brothers and sisters in Christ with your cartoons, your accusations of blasphemy, and your snide comments, can you actually imagine him laughing with you at your little joke? Discourse and disagreement is fair game. This forum is supposed to have a high level of both. But your comments ARE personal attacks against every Calvinist on this forum. I don't give a rip about what any Calvinist ever did to you. That is in the past. This is a continuing effort on your part to malign those who take the Bible and doctrinal study very seriously. If they have offended, they will answer to the Lord for it if they haven't repented. And so will you. I'm talking about you, right here and right now. Knock it off!! If you have something concrete to say, say it but stop with the personal attacks regarding a doctrinal disagreement or do not expect for others to continue speaking to you at all. I tried to gently ask you before and you tried to justify it. I am not speaking so gently this time because there is no justification for what you have been doing. Stop the trash talk. It is inappropriate amongst Christians. They will know we are Christians by our love. Since that is a truth statement, what do the folks on Free Republic know us as but a bunch of bickering pious jerks that can't bother to say one kind word to one another. Some message, indeed.
57 posted on 05/31/2002 10:39:47 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: xzins
I surfed by this page just a few seconds ago and I had to stop and let you and the rest of the people know that you don't know the whole truth when you speak of Calvinism.

God desires that all men would turn to Him, I believe that! I believe that with all my heart because it is IN THE BIBLE!!!! I believe the entire council of God, the entire Bible. You on the other hand have a presupposition that you believe in more than the Bible. You are blinded by what you have been taught. So much so that you will not pick up the bible and read the entire thing! If you are truly a Christian, which I am not doubting but rather I am simply specifying what I am about to say, than you must admit that "it is not by works of righteousness that we have done but by God's grace alone" that we are saved, right? Not works plus faith, not ambition plus faith, and really nothing else but faith alone in Christ, as it says in Ephesians 2:1-10. “1And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” So if you believe that, then why is it that you profess that you were saved by your own power. If your line of thinking is correct then the only reason why you "came to Christ" is simply that you were smarter than the next guy. Think about it? You say with your lips that it's faith alone, however you act as though it is by your intelligence and faith! My dear friend that is blasphemy!! I would almost dare to say that it is another Gospel. To teach that you must be smarter or greater than others in order to be saved? Didn't James write about that? Let's take a look at that! James 2:1-13 "1My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?
5Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?
8If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,”£ you do well; 9but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,”£ also said, “Do not murder.”£ Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment."
It all comes down to this: I believe that God gets all the glory.
You confess that God gets 95 percent of the glory and man gets like 5 percent. Think about it! If you're going to error when it comes to teaching the word of God, why not error on the side of God's glory and not man's? I know for a fact that God is not going to say, when we all get to heaven, "well I'm really disappointed in you, you just gave Me too much glory!"
83 posted on 10/09/2002 11:40:38 PM PDT by BISHNHOPPER
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