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To: fortheDeclaration
With so many Bible verses supporting both views, it is remarkable that so few take the rather obvious step of concluding that both are simultaneously true. In other words, our view is too limited.

Quite aside from the numerous Scriptures which support one position or the other, there are also those which include both! For example, Joel 2:32: "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved...among the survivors whom the Lord calls."

And Acts 13:48: "...all who were appointed for eternal life believed."

And 2 Thessalonians 2:13: "...God chose you to be saved...through belief in the truth."

3 posted on 07/13/2002 7:00:31 AM PDT by Hebrews 11:6
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To: Hebrews 11:6
      Sorry, both Calvin and Harmon (or Arminius) were wrong.  Neither one truly understood grace. 
      I no longer have the article, but the late Dr. John R. Rice once explained why each of the points of the Calvinist TULIP should be rejected.  Dr. Rice was a strong believer in eternal security, however.
      Some have divided sin into venial and mortal, but have done it incorrectly.  The division should be done according to state of the sinner, not according to the nature of the sin.  Any sin committed by the unsaved is mortal.  (And all have sinned.)  Any sin committed by the saved is venial.  (Or else the grace of God is limited.) 
23 posted on 07/13/2002 10:58:03 PM PDT by Celtman
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To: Hebrews 11:6
With so many Bible verses supporting both views, it is remarkable that so few take the rather obvious step of concluding that both are simultaneously true. In other words, our view is too limited. Quite aside from the numerous Scriptures which support one position or the other, there are also those which include both! For example, Joel 2:32: "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved...among the survivors whom the Lord calls." And Acts 13:48: "...all who were appointed for eternal life believed." And 2 Thessalonians 2:13: "...God chose you to be saved...through belief in the truth."

That is true, but one must come down on one side of the other, is someone elect because he believes or does he believe because he is elect

Only then can those verses be understood in the unconditional vs conditional election debate.

31 posted on 07/14/2002 5:04:32 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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