God's Willingness and Man's unwillingness

MiddleTown Bible church ^ | Unknown | Unknown

[ksen]

The book of Jeremiah is a testament to the fact that it doesn’t matter one iota what man wants once God has made up His mind.

Had God made up His mind to destroy Israel in Ex 32:7-10?

Exodus 32:
[7] And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
[8] They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
[9] And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
[1]0 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

[ksen]

If mankind is good enough to choose good on his own, why does he need a Saviour?

No Saviour, no choice.

[RnMomof7]

It depend on getting a tissue match. ..My hsuband cousin had one 20 years ago and is still going strong

[ksen]

I'm just thankful that GOD CHOSE to save me from my sin and rebellion against Him. I thankful that I can rest in the assurance that my salvation wasn't just made possible, but that it was actually ACCOMPLISHED by the very CREATOR of all things seen and unseen.

Oh, so you didn't have to believe on Christ in order to be born again? Your being born again was accomplished at Calvary?

[RnMomof7]

There's the rub, isn't it? That's why I'm so close to a "P." I have to come up with a decision on whether I think a true recantation of the faith is possible. Or if it's actually evidence that true faith never was present. If true faith can be recanted, then it is also must be true that that unbeliever will not be in heaven because no unbeliever will be in heaven.

You still have not told me how some one saved by the blood of Christ even gets into hell.....you have a theoloy put together with paper clips

[RnMomof7]

As the polloi of the apostle means all that have sinned; so the Mybr rabbim of the prophet means those for whom Christ died; i.e., all that have sinned." (Good ol' Dr. Adam Clarke.)

So I assume that means then that you believe in a universal salvation? No men are lost all are saved. We do not need missionaries and xzins can close his church.

Let me ask you the question that xzins will not answer.

If Christ died for all men or all sinners. Then His blood paid the price for all their sin ("It is finished") .

Does a just God demand double payment?

[ksen]

Rather, one must trust in God -period! If we are condemned to Hell -we got what we all deserve. If God makes us alive in Him then we DIDN'T get what we deserve and ALL praise and glory belong to Him!

So our trust and belief in Christ has no bearing on whether or not we are born again?

[ksen]

These Arminians need our prayers; they are not saved!

I believe you are making a judgement that is a bit above your paygrade.

[RnMomof7]

I consider your inital conversion a REAL act of God..and valid too :>))

[ksen]

Up until that moment I was not willing to yield to God, choosing instead, as was my nature, to rebel against Him. However, His application of grace, giving me a new birth, completely changed my will forever.

That is a wonderful testimony, thanks for sharing it.

One question though, were you born again before or after you trusted in Christ as your Saviour? IOW, did God save you therefore you are able to trust in Him, or did you trust in Him and therefore He saved you?

[RnMomof7]

If you are right can anyman count on God for anything? How do you know he will not take back your salvation tomorrow?

Num 23:19 God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

[RnMomof7]

So let me ask you Ksen<P.If Christ died cand shed his blood as payment for the sin of all men then How can a just God demand double payment?

[RnMomof7]

Oh, so you didn't have to believe on Christ in order to be born again? Your being born again was accomplished at Calvary?

Acording to your theology there is no need to believe ALL men everywhere were saved by the cross..you guys are the ones that keep saying all means all...so no one has to do anything is it a done deal

[ksen]

...there is nothing there to indicate the sacrifice of the High Priest was an unlimited atonment .

It would have sufficed for all who came in faith.

[ksen]

The Lamb was slain only for the elect Israel..that Priest only offered sacrifices for the elect Israel..that was a limited atone ment in type and purpose .

Just because the effect was limited doesn't mean that the provision was limited.

[RnMomof7]

It would have sufficed for all who came in faith.

So then it REALLY was not for ALL then right?

It was not for ALL men every where is that correct?

Did Jesus know who it was for?

[RnMomof7]

Just because the effect was limited doesn't mean that the provision was limited.

So it really does not do something then?

Jesus really did not die for the sins of men..he only made it possible?

[ksen]

So let me ask you Ksen

.If Christ died cand shed his blood as payment for the sin of all men then How can a just God demand double payment?

God does not demand double payment. Let’s say, for example, you are sending your kids to a private school. The school offers to pay the tuition for you, but you decide that you will pay yourself. Has the school demanded double payment? No, it has only accepted the actual payment given.

God provides a way for our sins to be paid(atoned) for, the sacrifice of His Son. Some people, unfortunately a vast majority, will reject God’s offer and attempt to pay on their own. We know that their attempt at payment will be vastly insufficient and they will end up in the Lake of Fire.

[ksen]

Acording to your theology there is no need to believe ALL men everywhere were saved by the cross..you guys are the ones that keep saying all means all...so no one has to do anything is it a done deal

Nice generalization, too bad it's incorrect.

According to my theology a person must believe in Jesus Christ as his Saviour in order to be saved.

I have read two testimonies on this thread that did not mention belief in Christ anywhere in them, so I have asked for a little clarification on their part.

Let me ask you, did God save you therefore you can believe in Christ as your Saviour, or did you believe in Christ as your Saviour and therefore God saved you?

[ksen]

I pray that you are among that elect.

It's amazing how many elect there are around churches that you would probably classify as Arminian.