It Was Us Against Them: Does Mahony Want A Priestless Church?

Los Angeles Lay Catholic Mission ^ | March, 2001 | Robert Kumpel

[american colleen]

While Father Z isn't sure about Mahony's plans for a priestless Church, he believes the archdiocesan hostility to traditional Catholicism has taken its toll on vocations. "I do know that a lot of priests have left. The cardinal likes a certain kind of priest. You can tell that they don't want vocations, because they do nothing to inspire vocations. He's purposely put a very liberal, feminist Sister (Kathy Bryant) as the vocations person.

"I think if we got a reasonable archbishop of Los Angeles, all of a sudden things would just switch. There's such a small minority of the real liberals and 'protestantized' Catholics that things would switch right away."

If Father Z's assessment of Mahony seems to contradict his gentle public image, Father Z is not alone in his view. Both Father Y and Father Z are firghtened of Mahony and spoke only on assurance of anonymity. "The cardinal is a tough man," one explained. "He will just crush you. He won't stop. I know of a priest who spoke out against something the cardinal was behind and he would not back off until the priest resigned. He even threatened to withdraw financial support. He has a lot of power because Los Angeles is one of the richest dioceses in the world and money is power. That's one of the biggest ways he throws his weight around.

"I pray for a real conversion (for Mahony). If he were to convert he would just be a powerhouse for the Church. He is a very engaging person. When he's in your presence, he really wins you over. He has a way of gauging you and he holds all his cards to his chest. He lets you break the ground and, once that happens, he's very agreeable to whatever you say. Everyone walks away from him saying, 'what a wonderful man!' When you're with him one on one, he really does fool you. It's when you find out what he's done later that you realize what you're dealing with, and it's not gentle. I know a lot of priests who have suffered under him. If you want holy priests, you need a holy bishop."

I attempted several times to reach Sister Kathy Bryant for response. She did not return my phone calls before this article went to press.

[american colleen]

Link to "It was us against them"

While the article caught my eye initially because of the mention of Cardinal Mahony, I did a search on the site for more articles that Robert Kumpel wrote. Interestingly, I came across a review of Michael Rose's book "Goodbye! Good Men" written more than one year after Mr. Kumpel wrote the article I posted above. Anyway, when digging around the site a bit more, I found one priest who wrote to Mr. Kumpel, in some detail, basically saying that he was educated at St. John's and never saw what Mr. Kumpel asserts in his article. More he said/(s)he said stuff. So, Michael Rose isn't the only one who gets questioned/refuted about his theory of orthodox seminarians being screened out of some seminaries.

Check out a couple of the "Roamin' Catholic" articles if you can. The diocese sure seems to have a lot of parishes with some pretty funky stuff going on at Mass.

[american colleen]

A little more in-depth information regarding Cardinal Roger Mahony of Los Angeles describing the drop in ordinations since 1970 as "one of the fruits of the Second Vatican Council."

[Salvation]

If you want holy priests, you need a holy bishop."

Says it all.

[Salvation]

In thinking about this, it makes complete sense that Mahony is a blankety - blank - blank. How did he ever get around the Historical Site Committee of the State of California to remove St. Vibianna's Cathedral, a protected State of California Historical Site?????

He has to be a persuasive, back-stabbing so and so who can talk himself in and out of any argument or situation at will. God have mercy of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and on us all.

[heyheyhey]

Kurt (not his real name) was one of many seminarians asked to leave St. John's seminary for "psychological reasons." "I was dismissed for my doctrinal views -- my theology was suspect," he said.

This sounds a lot like a couple of YOU-KNOW-WHO'S, former seminarians, posting on FR
;^D

[Salvation]

This banshee is going to go cool off. I get so mad just thinking about what Mahony has done.

[ninenot]

If he's vengeful, spiteful, and a snake-in-the-grass, he certainly resembles R. Weakland.

THERE'S a caution for LA Catholics.

[american colleen]

:-D

[american colleen]

I get so mad just thinking about what Mahony has done.

Sola Scriptura gone really awry.

[JMJ333]

When he's in your presence, he really wins you over. He has a way of gauging you and he holds all his cards to his chest. He lets you break the ground and, once that happens, he's very agreeable to whatever you say. Everyone walks away from him saying, 'what a wonderful man!' When you're with him one on one, he really does fool you. It's when you find out what he's done later that you realize what you're dealing with, and it's not gentle.

Very similar description to Bill Clinton.

[american colleen]

You are right, very Clintonian. Also the phrase "he's very agreeable to whatever you say" is scary. It speaks of someone with no real convictions. I wonder if he's like that spiritually, as well. If you know what I mean.

[TotusTuus]

I've heard these stories firsthand from priests and (ex)seminarians who went to this seminary. Back in the 80's there was a time when I was seriously considering the Call (as a Latin Rite Priest). At a diocesan level, I would have probably been sent to St. John's, though now, I don't think the diocese, which does not have its own seminary, sends seminarians there any more. I would have been very naive at the time as to the politics involved and obviously been labeled "rigid". I didn't go. I'm thankful.

[ultima ratio]

You wrote, "I get so mad just thinking about what Mahoney has done."

Oh, but are not allowed to get angry--or to be bitter about how they are wrecking the Church. You are supposed to shut up and get in line with the program.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

#1 - This explains a lot about Mahoney's political and 'social justice' type activities.

#2 - I've have heard that the Sacraments are valid even when the priest is not the most holy person. Personally, I have a difficult time believing this. A corrupt priest would be a dirty container for the Spirit. How could the Holy Spirit act or reside there? I think a priest/Saint's abilities are directly related to their own purity. I will only go to Mass and take Sacraments from a priest I respect and know to be a good person, but that's just me.

[Desdemona]

I read this thread last night, and after thinking about it, I think the proper word for the phoney is MEGALOMANIAC.

This guy is interested in himself. Period. No one else. (and his legacy, yet another Clintonism) His red hat is his ticket to the top. It must really chafe that he has to bow, at least outwardly, to the pope. (hey, just think, we get our own Cardinal Richelieu)

It is not unprecidented for a leader not chosen by the people and not having their oversight to build a monument to himself and bankrupt the system in the process (see Bavaria, "Mad" King Ludwig, Neuschwanstein) (he wasn't really mad, just a flaming queen) (and King Louis XIV, Versailles, although I'm not sure he was really gay).

Anyway, my point is, that these men were not leaders at all. They had nothing to do with the common man and had no interest in the common man. The same with Mahoney. What makes Mahoney more dangerous, appearantly, is his charm and that outwardly, al least, he agrees with "you." (kings didn't have to agree with anything) In his case, actions speak louder than words. What I'm waiting for is the Vatican to wake up and remove him, but I'm afraid it's going to take a mighty request from the laity before it happens.

As for priests, the argument that vocations were deliberately decimated in order to blame it all on Rome is probably correct. I DO think Mahoney's ultimate goal is to split off, what the focus of his church would be, I have no clue, but he's probably counting on the rest of the country following him as he is leader of the "largest diocese in the country." What he doesn't realize is that he has turned off so many people that without Rome protecting him, he would be no where close to any kind of power.

Something about the Mahoney MO and pattern just strikes as being of the Mad King Ludwig ilk. There's just so many similarities. Ludwig was found naked and dead in a lake. No one asked too many questions. Food for thought.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Actual link: http://www.losangelesmission.com//ed/articles/2001/0301rk.htm

[ninenot]

King Ludwig donated a convent to the School Sisters of Notre Dame here in the Milwaukee area. The building contains an exact replica of his chapel in Bavaria, so we are told...

[Desdemona]

Chapel? What chapel? Do I remember a chapel? Probably, but what sticks out was the throne room. The throne was never built, but there is a six-step dias in white marble up to where the throne is supposed to be and the painting on the walls right there is Jesus and the Apostles, six on either side.

I'm trying to remember a chapel. I'm sure there is one, but for the life of me I can't remember it.