Posted on 09/13/2002 9:18:41 PM PDT by White Mountain
Let's try again to have a civil and cordial discussion. That may seem impossible, with so much water under the bridge, but I assure you it is possible. Let's stick to the Word of God. That will help tremendously.
I never said anything to you that you should feel the need defend the Bible. The Bible has given me much comfort in my life through many ruff times.
I also feel blessed in my life because have both the Bible and the Book of Mormon for to me they witness one another in the word of Jesus Christ.
This is something I don't expect from non LDS and am not offend if you just feel loyal to one source of the Lord word.
Peace and Blessing from the Lord to you!
The keys of the Kingdom have to do with the sealing power. This is from "Temple Sealings" by Paul V Heyer.
A "sealing," as a generic term, means the securing, determining, or establishment of a bond of legitimacy. Among members of the Church sealing refers to the marriage of a husband and wife and to the joining together of children and parents in relationships that are to endure forever. This special type of sealing of husband and wife in marriage is referred to as "eternal marriage" or "celestial marriage." It contrasts with civil and church marriages, which are ceremonies recognized only by earthly authority and are only for the duration of mortal life.The sealing together of husband, wife, and children in eternal family units is the culminating ordinance of the priesthood, to which all others are preparatory. It must be performed by one holding the sealing power and today in an LDS temple dedicated to God. The Savior referred to this sealing power when he gave his apostle Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven, saying that "whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matt. 16:19). In modern times this sealing authority was restored to the earth in the Kirtland Temple on April 3, 1836, by the prophet Elijah, who was the ancient custodian of this power (D&C 110:13-16).
A sealing ceremony is an inspiring and solemn ordinance performed in specially designated and dedicated rooms of a temple. The couple to be married or the family to be sealed kneel at an altar. The officiator is one who has received the sealing power under the highest priesthood authority in the Church (see Prophet, Seer, and Revelator; Sealing Power).
For members of the Church, sealings endow life with greater purpose and give marriage a sense of divine partnership with spiritual safeguards. Bringing children into the world becomes a divinely inspired stewardship. Sealings can sustain a family in life and console them in death. They establish continuity in life, here and hereafter.
From Matthew 16:13-20:
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
2. Would you explain where or when they were given to President Gordon B. Hinckley and what it means to "exercise them"?
President Hinckley received the keys when he was set apart, ordained to be prophet, seer, and revelator. He has all the keys of the kingdom. The sealing power is one of the keys, the gathering of Israel is another of the keys, the priesthood is another key (the power to baptize and perform other ordinances, such as blessing the sacrament, naming babies, confirming newly baptized members of the LDS church and giving them the gift of the Holy Ghost, etc) are another key, From an article "Sealing Power" by David Yarn.
The President of the Church holds and exercises the keys of sealing on earth. When a man is ordained an apostle and set apart as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, sealing is one of the powers bestowed upon him. Other General Authorities of the Church, the presidencies of temples, and a limited number of officiators in each temple receive this sealing power during their tenure. After one is approved by the First Presidency to receive the sealing power, the President of the Church, one of his counselors, or a member of the Twelve Apostles specifically designated by the President confers the sealing power upon him by the laying on of hands. This is the specific authority to perform the temple sealing ordinances.Signets and seals have been used from early antiquity to certify authority. The word "seal" appears many times in the scriptures. Jesus Christ was "sealed" by God the Father (John 6:27), and Paul reminded ancient Saints that God had anointed and sealed them (2 Cor. 1:21-22) and told others they "were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest [assurance] of our inheritance until the redemption" (Eph. 1:13-14). John spoke of the servants of God being sealed in their foreheads (Rev. 7:3). In the apocryphal Acts of Thomas (verse 131), Thomas prayed that he and his wife and daughter "May receive the seal" and "become servants of the true God." Even today licenses, diplomas, legal documents, and the like bear seals that officially attest to their authenticity.
For Latter-day Saints, the ultimate sealing power is the priesthood power given to authorized servants of the Lord to perform certain acts on earth and have them recognized (sealed) or validated in heaven. They believe it is this authority the Lord Jesus Christ described when he said to Peter, "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:19).
3. Would you explain where or when Peter, James, and John laid hands on Joseph Smith to give him these keys?
The Saints (members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Saints) built a temple to God in Kirtland, Ohio. In 1836, Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in a vision in the Kirtland temple. This is from section 110 of the Doctrine and Covenants.
Visions manifested to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Oliver Cowdery in the temple at Kirtland, Ohio, April 3, 1836. HC 2: 435-436. The occasion was that of a Sabbath day meeting. The Prophet prefaces his record of the manifestations with these words: "In the afternoon, I assisted the other Presidents in distributing the Lord's Supper to the Church, receiving it from the Twelve, whose privilege it was to officiate at the sacred desk this day. After having performed this service to my brethren, I retired to the pulpit, the veils being dropped, and bowed myself, with Oliver Cowdery, in solemn and silent prayer. After rising from prayer, the following vision was opened to both of us."
1-10, The Lord Jehovah appears in glory and accepts the Kirtland Temple as his house; 11-12, Moses and Elias each appear and commit their keys and dispensations; 13-16, Elijah returns and commits the keys of his dispensation as promised by Malachi.
1 THE veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi?testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come-
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse-
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.
I know that you lost your husband not long ago as I have seen you mention that on other threads. Do you know WITHOUT A DOUBT that you will see him again? And I do mean WITHOUT A DOUBT . I am absolutely, positive I will see both of my parents again...no doubt whatsoever. Are you that totally, completely sure? NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER?
Please know this is not a trick question. I have such a calm, rock solid assurance. And that assurance comes only from the Bible. I have never seen nor read the Book of Mormon. Do you have that assurance? And does it take two books to get that assurance? Or could you get it just from the Bible, as I did?
I'm trying to figure out how to say this, so bear with me. I don't think I've ever read an "official" statement on the King James Bible. That said, before 1978, the LDS church would purchase most of its bibles from Cambridge University Press. My first Bible is one of these. In 1979, the LDS church produced its own King James Bible, complete with a set of footnotes and cross references, as well as translational notes and study helps. The cross references go through all of our standard works (The Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.) If you go to lds.org, the King James Version (with the JST) is the LDS church's official Bible.
My parents are out of town, I can talk to my dad tomorrow and ask him for further clarification.
Do you take non-biblical sources as "absolute truth"? By what (or whose) authority? There are lots of people who write things about what they believe to be truth. But I believe there must be some authoritive basis for what they write in order for an entire doctrine to be formed around it. (If you have seen my discussions with restornu tonight, you'll see where I'm coming from with this question!)
Terribly decent of you to go to all that trouble, start a new thread, make an offer, and so forth, but you guys have seen me posting here on nearly a daily basis for over two years now. I am here for you. I am available for cordial discussion always.
I have also been talking about what you call "ground rules" for quite some time, which are applicable to any thread, any time. No special thread necessary.
Jim Robinson's guidelines, plus:
In support of Utah Girl's excellent post, this says it pretty well:
LDS Bible Dictionary: Melchizedek PriesthoodThese events took place in 1829 and 1836, so they are obviously not recorded in the Bible.
The Melchizedek Priesthood was restored to the earth in these last days by the ministry of Peter, James, and John, who literally came to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the spring of 1829 and conferred this power and authority upon them (D&C 27: 12-13). Later, Moses, Elias, and Elijah gave them further keys by which these brethren could use the Melchizedek Priesthood in additional ways (D&C 110). The president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the president of the high or Melchizedek priesthood, and by virtue of this position, he holds all the keys that pertain to the kingdom of God on the earth [the Keys of the Kingdom]. This office or calling is held by only one man at a time, and he is the only person on the earth at that time in whom all the powers and keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood are functional.
Priesthood keys are the authority from God to direct the labors of those who hold the priesthood of God.
To exercise those keys is to make assignments to perform ordinances, etc.
For example, when my sons and daughters each became eight years old, and it was time for them to be baptized by immersion, I am ordained and have authority to baptize, but I did so by permission of our Bishop, who holds the keys in our ward (congregation) for such ordinances.
It is the same with the laying on of hands for the conferral of the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I have priesthood authority to do that under the direction of our Bishop.
Here is the scripture passage referenced above about Peter, James, and John. This is Jesus Christ speaking:
LDS Doctrine and Covenants 27:12-13The other passage was quoted by UG at the end of her #343.
12 And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;
13 Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fulness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;
If you are interested further, perform this search and look at the results numbered 11 through 29.
Sharon is the one protesting Elsie's #333, not all LDS posters. You go back and look at it, and yes, it is typical Elsie, poking us in the ribs.
I have never met Sharon, but I think she is still smarting from the really abominable behavior of previous threads. This thread has been better in many places in my opinion, but she may not think so.
I am doing my best, both publicly and privately, to help people calm down so we do not have another flame war, but I can't say Elsie's #333, among others, helps a whole lot.
>> Elsie: Also... if you post Scripture, make sure it is KJV.
I haven't seen any LDS poster insist on KJV only, nor do I expect to.
>> According to LDS theology, it IS lacking
One of our Articles of Faith says: We believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly ...
The Book of Mormon says many plain and precious things have been removed from the Bible before it came down to us.
Does that mean the KJV is lacking? No, it is not quite the same thing. We are talking about the Word of God here, and "lacking" just doesn't convey the right impression, though you could quibble with that and claim that "removed" = "lacking".
>> the newer bible translations are REALLY ungodly, in their opinion.
This is probably the worst poke in the ribs. We do think some of the modern translations try to explain away the miracles of Christ as if nothing supernatural happened. Really ungodly? We have never said that.
>> KJV is the root of the JST
Joseph Smith did make his notes in a KJV Bible, but revelation from heaven, as with any true prophet, was the key, and that means, as Elsie said, that this is not a "translation" in the usual sense of the word -- not that we have a better word for it in our language.
Compare the Book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price, the part of the JST that has been canonized, with the first few chapters of Genesis, and you will get an idea of what Jesus Christ asked Joseph Smith to do.
>> He didn't quite get finished with the KJV to JST when he died, and God has seen fit to let the work languish for 150 years now
Why wasn't the JST "finished"? I am sure we will find out eventually. My thinking is that the time has not yet come for us to have a Bible that is different from the rest of Christendom. We need the Bible to be common ground. Maybe when the Savior comes again, and begins His great millennial reign ...
One of our Articles of Faith says: We believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly
By definition here, the KJV and any other version, is lacking. You need that to show that the BoM and the D&C and the PoGP are the additions and clarifications for what the Bible lacks. Why you think you have to explain it away is interesting. Why not just say " Yes the Bible is lacking." And not be embarrassed by it?
The rest of your post is just more of the same. The same justification that you need to add to the Bible. And what you have added to the Bible is an abomination. You didn't mention the Book of Abraham. I wonder why? Could it be because its patently false?
And for all your work on calming people down. Did it stop restornu from posting the blashpemous statement that "we are gods in embryo?" Did you talk to her about that. That must be one embarassing belief that you didn't want out in the open.
Just make sure you do not get things from the WRONG place! RESTY will tell you where THOSE are, won't you Restornu?
I'm really not being evasive, I thought I put in my answer at one point that we believe the King James Bible is the most correctly translated Bible. I edit my comments usually, and I must have taken that part out for some reason. Anyway. I do have a cool graphic about the genealogy of the KJV.
From Luke 24:
Looks to me like you should expect confirmation of truth by the power of the Holy Ghost.
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