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To: ultima ratio; Maximilian
by your repulsive behavior and knee jerk attacks.

By the way, just to reiterate...I'm not exactly "taking sides" in putting forward this criticism. I think it can be applied equally to the schismatics as well as the neoconservatives that fight them.

I think Steve Hand's polemics are just as repulsive and knee jerk. I think the attacks on Sungenis have been just as repulsive.

The "We Resist You To the Face" folks can handle it...they dish it out just as much as they are the subject of it.

The liberals ---heck, the DEVIL--- are thrilled by this bloodletting between "traditionalists" and conservatives, and the problem is the blurring of distinctions between "traditionalists" and "integrists" on the one hand, and "conservatives" and "neoconservatives" on the other.

Integrists (what a useless word, I admit!) as well as neoconservatives are equally guilty of repulsive behavior and knee jerk attacks.

I am too.

But these behaviors are counterproductive no matter which camp engages in them.

54 posted on 10/14/2002 2:36:09 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: Polycarp
The liberals ---heck, the DEVIL--- are thrilled by this bloodletting between "traditionalists" and conservatives, and the problem is the blurring of distinctions between "traditionalists" and "integrists" on the one hand, and "conservatives" and "neoconservatives" on the other.

Polycarp, I think you stated your position very well in this post and the previous post sans name-calling. However, I don't agree with the general premise. It appears to me that we are going through an essential period of clarifying facts, ideas and opinions. New Information is coming to light every day. Resources that were previously unavailable are now within our reach thanks to the internet.

So it is inevitable that "traditionalist" and "conservatives" have to hash out these issues. There has to be some "bloodletting" for the truth to emerge.

Compare the situation to the political realm. Voices of moderation are always telling the Republican party to stop their infighting. In practice that always means handing over the party to the so-called moderates. Pro-lifers must continue to fight unremittingly for their position. Better that some Republicans should lose due to infighting, rather than the Whitmans and the Giulianis should be allowed to take over the party.

Right now there is no consensus in the Church, and there CAN'T be a consensus considering Her current state. There is too much disputed, too many crises, too much information unavailable for anyone to have the perfect solution.

I can't even say where I stand from day to day. Too often I'm influenced by the last person I read. But even as I try to take principled stands and rely on the rock of faith and tradition, I find that there are irreconcilable conflicts.

We are caught in a tragic situation where conflicting duties impel us in opposite directions, like Antigone who was caught between conflicting laws. There was no happy solution for her, and there may be no way out for us either. But in the meantime, it's not realistic to think that we can all just get along, anymore than it was possible for Antigone and her brothers.

55 posted on 10/14/2002 2:50:38 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Polycarp
Look at what I wrote. If anybody is knee-jerk, it is you. I said IF you were referring to Lefebre and his followers. IF. You mentioned my nightmarish perspective in another post. You're right, it is nightmarish--but it is accurate. It is a nightmare to believe the traditional beliefs of the Catholic Church have been successfully targeted for decades with no one in the Vatican actively protecting the faithful from such dangers.
57 posted on 10/14/2002 3:13:23 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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