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To: Maximilian
the whole point of the Mass is something very different: that in the sacrifice on the altar, the bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Our Lord. In the multitude of readings, greetings, and songs in our parish church, that point tends to fade into the distance.

Transubstantiation happens in all languages. How deeply and reverently that is ackknowledged depends upon the catechsis, faith and receptivity of the believing community. I think reverence for the Eucharist is prominent at Masses in Latin because the worshippers there are strong believers who go out of their way to attend and participate. It does not follow that if the Masses are celebrated in the vernacular that Jesus is any less there or that the Masses are not a legitimate expression of worship. It is fortunate that you have the availability of a Latin Mass that helps you and your family grow in the Catholic faith. However, it is unfortunate that you do not have Mass in the vernacular that is that is just as reverent and points to the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Unfortunately for all of us, authentic worship experiences that truly express what is wondrously happening in our midst, in Latin or in the vernacular, are few and far between. All of us need to keep focussed on the center of our faith, the Presence of Jesus in the blessed Sacrament among us. All other devotions, teaching and church activities need to point to Him. When He is lifted up, He will draw all people to Himself.

12 posted on 10/16/2002 2:04:44 PM PDT by Dusty Rose
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To: Dusty Rose
All of us need to keep focussed on the center of our faith, the Presence of Jesus in the blessed Sacrament among us.

Bears repeating ... again and again!

32 posted on 10/16/2002 4:29:01 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Dusty Rose; Polycarp
Everything has been done to suppress the doctrine of the Real Presence. Genuflections have been removed, except for a single one at the Consecration. Kneeling is now prohibited at communion. Communion in the hands further desacralizes the experience. The liturgical text has been radically altered so that there is now no real Offertory; references to sacrifice and expiation for sins are radically reduced; the term "Mystery of Faith" no longer refers DURING Consecration to the change of bread and wine into Christ's Body and Blood, but has been shifted to AFTER the Consecration and refers instead to Christ's death, resurrection and promise to come again. Everything has been changed to focus on Christ's VIRTUAL Presence in the assembly and in the Scripture readings--as in a Methodist or Lutheran Lord's Supper worship service. His ACTUAL Presence is ignored in the ways mentioned.

For all these reasons--and much much more--the Novus Ordo is an insult to Catholic teachings and deliberately aims to approximate Protestant, not Catholic, tradition. That many Catholics prefer the Novus Ordo is no surprise. It is what they are now, after a full generation, used to. It is easy, it is pleasant. But it is NOT truly Catholic. It is the liturgy of a new quasi-Protestant religion.
53 posted on 10/16/2002 7:14:14 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Dusty Rose
authentic worship experiences that truly express what is wondrously happening in our midst, in Latin or in the vernacular, are few and far between.

This is sad, We spent week after week, when we first moved to the Atlanta area, looking for a Catholic church that we could really feel at home in. In some we left before the service was over, I say service because I don't believe that it was a Mass. When you are brought up with the Latin Mass it's part of being home again...

62 posted on 10/17/2002 12:29:51 AM PDT by .45MAN
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To: Dusty Rose
It does not follow that if the Masses are celebrated in the vernacular that Jesus is any less there or that the Masses are not a legitimate expression of worship.

<> True. Pope Siricius, prior to 400 a.d. changed the Greek Mass into the vernacular Latin.

Mr. Tucker is a smart man but the questions of his 3 y.o. don't ring true to me. In any event, the Pauline Rite I attend is celebrated reverently. Last week, the Priest sermonised about Sanctifying Grace in connection with the Wedding Garment. Frankly, that is the first time I have heard that explained in about forever. That includes all the time I went to the Indult.

I think Mr. Tucker is wise to go to both Liturgies. I do think the Indult will be lifted in the next Papacy. I worry the endless comparisons of the Liturgies have so polarised folks that when the Indult is lifted, those that think they have been "going to a real Mass," might well join the schism.<>

69 posted on 10/17/2002 5:33:31 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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