The Twenty Mysteries of the Rosary?

Seattle Catholic ^ | November 8, 2002 | John Vennari

[RichardMoore]

Dear Polycarp, I cannot subscribe to any ideology even if it is Catholic. Therefore I don't think I fit into any of those categories.

I do lean toward GK Chesterton since I myself am a convert.

The controversy over new mass and old mass seems futile to me. The Eucharist is Jesus even if the priest doesn't believe it. That was quite a revelation to find in the catachism.

Anyway, I do agree that the Church in American like most things is in trouble and the Vatican is looking to the future of the Church, and it's not in the North but in the south..Africa and South America.

Chesterton talked quite a bit about the Industrial Capitalism and how it has been a huge enemy of the family. He said Communism could have been but it was doomed to failure. But Captialism requires families to split up in search of a livelihood.

This is the crux of the modern problem. I believe that Pius X was right as was Leo XIII. Without a break from the current system of wage slavery as Belloc called it we cannot expect things to get better within or without the Church.

When I meet foreign priests from the third world I am constantly amazed at their orthodoxy and reminded that America is after all a Protestant country.

[Dajjal]

Dajjal, in post #218:
"I'm not talking about "my" rosary or "your" rosary, which are voluntary and can have whatever mysteries we like."
Dajjal, in post #220:
"I read Lady In Blue as saying that she no longer says the other fifteen."
It sounds like you ARE talking about "my rosary" or "your rosary", despite your protestations otherwise.

Posts #218 and #220 are on two different topics. That's why they are two different posts.

For all you know, she may be saying all 20 in one day. Then what would you say?

I would apologize for misreading her post. But it was a side comment in #178 and not essential to my thesis that Pope John Paul II has rendered the 15-mystery rosary and the wealth of supportive literature and artwork obsolete and unusable.

Are our prayers less pleasing to God if we use the luminous mysteries?

I never said that. I simply lament that the pope chose to tinker with the Rosary rather than introduce these meditations as a new chaplet, for the reasons given above in posts #5-7, 10, 178 & 218-220.

As I said way back at the beginning of the thread, I think this is nit-picking.

And you are intitled to that opinion. But I disagree. While the Rosary is not essential to the Catholic faith, history has given it a place of central honor and prominence. I lament that the pope chose to transmogrify it. That is my opinion, for the reasons given above.

[Dajjal]

MORE OBSOLETE ROSARY ART

Madonna of the Rosary by Lorenzo Lotto
(1539) Oil on canvas - Church of San Ncolo, Cingoli

How sad for art such as this to be removed from the living devotion of the Church, and be consigned to the attic of Her past.

[St.Chuck]

How sad for art such as this to be removed from the living devotion of the Church, and be consigned to the attic of Her past.

I think the purpose of adding the "new" mysteries was to prompt Christians to expand their ongoing contemplation of the events in Christ's life. It is fitting for the Vicar of Christ to encourage his flock to gain a greater knowlege of Our Lord. Apparently Rosarium Virginis Mariae has prompted you to go a different direction. But thanks for posting the pretty pictures. I tend to doubt that they will be consigned to any literal or figurative attic.

[tiki]

I didn't read the whole thing but wasn't it just a suggestion? to add the new mysteries.

I can see pros and cons to this change and I won't argue with you because I agree with much of what you say and though, at first, I was delighted about the new mysteries I haven't found it in my heart to pray the Rosary and use them as mysteries.

I think we should all pray about the change and ask Mary because we all know how powerful the intercession of Mary can be.

[tiki]

I'm glad you looked that up because I was too lazy but I had thought that the Rosary slowly evolved over time and that it didn't start completely intact in the manner in which we say it.

[tiki]

Very good reply.

[Dajjal]

I didn't read the whole thing but wasn't it just a suggestion? to add the new mysteries.

See my posts #178 & 218.

I second your motion that we pray for Mary's guidance. A good idea in every situation.

[Catholicguy]

<> transmogrify? Get a grip..your opposition to the Pope is causing you to make inane statements. You seem to entertain seriously that your personal opinion is as valid as the Pope's thoughtful and wonderful contributions to the Faith. Good grief...has your devotion to the Rosary not taught you any humility?<>

[RnMomof7]

I think we should all pray about the change and ask Mary because we all know how powerful the intercession of Mary can be.

LOL..how about asking GOD about praying to Mary FIRST...Have you EVER done that?. If you ask Mary if you should BTW that would not be INTERCESSION (think 1st commandment)

[Catholicguy]

<> This piece is for you and your ilk<>

Our Pope, Our Blessed Mother and the Cult of Gloom

by Matt Abbot, Art Sippo and Pete Vere

To celebrate the 24th anniversary of his pontificate, Pope John Paul II recently promulgated Rosarium Virginis Mariae. In this work, the Holy Father dedicates the year 2003 to the Rosary and proposes five new Mysteries to be contemplated while praying this most popular of devotions to the Blessed Mother. These optional Mysteries, called Luminous, are all taken from the life of Our Lord. As Peggy Noonan so aptly points out, in the sunset years of his pontificate, Pope John Paul II has shown the world what truly matters most, namely prayer. And thus as Catholics faithful to Tradition, the present authors look forward to meditating upon the life of Our Lord as seen through the eyes of Our Blessed Mother.

After all, the five Luminous Mysteries emphasize the great mysteries of Christ's life that are in the Gospels but not noted in the previous mysteries. For example, the Transfiguration is the major event in Christ's life in the Church’s Eastern Tradition and merits inclusion in order to make the Rosary more of a universal prayer for all Catholics. The miracle at Cana is also a Marian event of great importance that supports the overall theme of the Rosary. The preaching of the Kingdom is critically important in Catholicism because it emphasizes the Kingship of Christ and the fact Our Lord founded a visible messianic community, and not merely an invisible secret society of elite individuals. Finally, the inclusion of the Baptism of Jesus and the Last Supper helps to link the rosary to the Church's liturgical tradition – a tradition that has suffered greatly in the last forty years.

Yet not all folks share our enthusiasm for these optional Mysteries proposed by Holy Father. As usual, the ever-vigilant and lidless eye of integrism has turned its pitiless gaze toward the Luminous Mysteries. “How dare the Pope tamper with the Rosary,” they exclaim in sanctimonious outrage. “Isn’t the Rosary fine as it is? What good can come from changing it? It must be some sort of subtle modernist plot.”

Forget that the Rosary is a private devotion and that these new Mysteries are optional. Forget that Our Lady’s purpose is to bring us closer to her Divine Son, and that these Mysteries assist us in contemplating the life of Our Lord. Forget that over the nine-hundred-year period since the first introduction of the Rosary, it has continuously evolved as a popular devotion. For example, in time the Glory Be and the Fatima Prayer were added after each decade. While the Hail, Holy Queen and Pope Leo XIII’s Prayer to St. Michael were added to the Rosary’s concluding prayers at a date much later than this pious devotion’s first introduction. And since the following prayer is at the very heart of the Rosary, dare we mention that the entire second half of the Hail Mary is an addition? Read St. Thomas Aquinas’ commentary on the prayers of the Rosary, and you find no mention of the following incantation when he reflects upon the Ave Maria: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at time of our death. Amen.” All these practices, which pious Catholics today take for granted when praying the Rosary, are additions that arose throughout the years from the pious popular expressions of good Catholic men and women. In short, the Rosary is an evolving devotion subject to organic growth.

And thus as one individual recently commented on an email discussion list, perhaps the lidless eye reactionaries would have been happier if, in lieu of the five Luminous Mysteries, the Holy Rosary would have evolved toward the five Gloomy Mysteries. These could include the following: 1) Our Lord preventing the Pharisees from giving the adulteress the stoning she so richly deserved. 2) The five foolish virgins being told, "I know you not". 3) The rich man goes to hell and is denied a drop of water. 4) The blood curse of the Jews of which Pontius Pilate washes his hands. And 5) Judas betrays Our Lord with a kiss, hangs himself, and his stomach bursts open.
posted by Pete Vere on 10/24/2002 | Comments (6)

[tiki]

Saint Micheal the Archangel, defend us in battle...

[tiki]

As I was thinking about this article today I decided to pray the Luminous Mysteries for the first time today. Mary always reveals the Son and leads to the Son, devotion to Mary and to Mary's Rosary always leads directly to the Son. These new mysteries lead to the very essence of Jesus' earthly ministry and I can see no harm and only good that could come from it. "show unto us the Blessed Fruit of thy womb, Jesus."

[RnMomof7]

Saint Micheal the Archangel, defend us in battle...

LOL better you do what God told you to do tiki ..not some superstition 

    Eph 6:11   Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
     Eph 6:12   For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
     Eph 6:13   Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
     Eph 6:14   Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
     Eph 6:15   And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
     Eph 6:16   Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
     Eph 6:17   And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:  

So Tiki did you ever ask God if you should pray to Mary?

[Catholicguy]

<> The Catholic Church is the Pillar and Ground of truth. Holy Mother Church condemns superstition and promotes praying the Rosary. The Pillar and Ground of Truth, of whom Jesus said, "He who hears you hears me" does not teach error or promote superstition.

Jesus would not have established His Church upon Peter, sent the Holy Spirit upon it to teach all truth, refer to that Catholic Church as The Pillar and Ground of Truth, Promise the gates of Hell would not prevail, Promise to be with His Catholic Church until the end of time and then abandon His Church and allow it to teach and promote truth and error. That makes no sense. That would be like saying the Triune God would allow the poison of superstition to be mixed in with the honey of Christian Doctrine so as to deceive His followers.

Now, I know you believe that to be the case. It is also the case you cannot back up those beliefs using the Bible. You cannot show me in the Bible where it says the Church isn't the Pillar and Ground of Truth. You cannot show me in the Bible where Jesus says I didn't build my Church upon Peter. You cannot show me in the Bible where Jesus says I will send the Hoily Spirit upon My Church teach it superstition. You cannot show me in the Bible where Jesus said the Chruc is The Pillar and Ground of truth but the Church wil teach error and superstition so don't listen to the Church. You can't show me in the Bible where Jesus said "he who hears you (Catholic Church) hears me" means that Church will teach error.

No, lo these many months I have been a citizen of Freeperville, I never see any Biblical evidence that Jesus intended to establish a Church that would fail. You Mom, of all people, have the most difficult time tryin to make that arguement make sense.

You continually assert everything had been predetermined prior to the foundation of the world. That would necessarily mean that God planned all this...He planned to found a Church that WOULD fail. He planned to establish a Church and call it the Pillar and Ground of truth and let it deceive BILLIONS of Christians and condemn them to Hell for following false Doctrine. It would mean that God sent out into the world to Teach all nations a Church that would teach falsehood. It would mean that he established Sacraments like Baptism that were superfluous...

RnMomof7...you are welcome to such beliefs. But, having adopted such thoughts, how can you call what we do superstition?<>