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To: american colleen
I say again, you're over your head.
301 posted on 12/02/2002 1:32:59 PM PST by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
I think one interesting point to make regarding the original article is the history of the use of Latin in the Novus Ordo.

The following is an excerpt from Bryan Houghton's book Mitre and Crook dealing with this subject. This is an excellent book that I would recommend to every Catholic wishing to understand the revolution that took place in the church in the 1960's and 70's (It is out of print but fairly easy to come by).

"On June 14th, 1971, the Congregation for Worship issued a Notification granting to Episcopal Conferences the right to impose the exclusive use of the vernacular in the New Ordo, once the translations had been approved. It thus became illicit to celebrate the New Ordo in Latin. (. . .) It also repeated the provision in the instruction of October 20th, 1969 that the Old Mass could only be said by aged priests sine populo.

Be it noted that a Notification is a purely administrative document and has no legislative authority whatsoever. Moreover, this particular one was itself undated and unsigned. It is therefore worth less than the paper on which it was printed. The bishops, from Rome to Stamford, remained mute.

Of course, the inevitable result of this particular piece of administrative folly was to throw all Latinists into the arms of the Tridentiners. There was no alternative if the New Ordo was illicit in Latin. It became imperative to divide the opposition, especially as Archbishop Lefebvre had cropped up in the meantime. The laity had thus found a bishop with the promise of future priests. Hence the Notification of October 28th, 1974. This document reverses the previous ruling: the New Ordo may now be said in Latin or vernacular with equality off esteem."

This bit of history should be kept in mind by those who attend the NO in Latin. They should know that it was never Rome's intent to preserve the Latin language in the liturgy. This should be obvious when one considers the nature of the New Mass. Why would you say the NO in a language incomprehensible to the people? After all the NO is all about the people. It makes sense to say the Traditional Mass in Latin as it is addressed to God, but the NO is centered aroung the people, and thus should be said in the vernacular. Fr. Houghton, in his book makes it clear that he thinks the NO in Latin is the worst of all choices.

302 posted on 12/02/2002 2:14:12 PM PST by Bellarmine
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To: ultima ratio
I say again, you're over your head.

Well, that is probably one of the only things you are right about. Though you could have just gotten to the bottom line and called me stupid.

I guess I don't spend much time peeking around corners and searching for reasons to denigrate the present pope, Vatican II and the Novus Ordo. Or, to put it simply, I don't like to spend ANY time causing division and confusion among Catholics from the "right" or the "left."

Ultima, I would give my right arm if you were in my parish. I am trying so hard to persuade the parish priest to put the tabernacle back on the main altar, have a parish holy hour, have a parish rosary and revamp the CCD program. I have absolutely no help from anyone in my parish, in fact, I am kind of ostrasized by the "pastoral associate" nun and the parish priest. The choir director loves the Latin but the parish priest doesn't let him use traditional Latin music... and there aren't enough likeminded parishioners to support the choir director. Part of being Catholic is thinking of our brothers and sisters and not as just our own personal salvation. We are supposed to try to bring many souls to Jesus. You took the easy route by "opting out" instead of staying in the Church and working to bring the parish community back to Jesus. Your way is much easier.

305 posted on 12/02/2002 4:21:42 PM PST by american colleen
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To: ultima ratio
<> A.C. is not over her head. She is on solid ground and in Union with the Pope. You, however, have walked the plank off the Barque of Peter and you are drowning in your schism and as you head down for the third time, you issue inane disquisitions about the Captain of the Ark of Salvation

And when the Captain sends out the lifeboats, you carp the boats are insufficiently varnished and you refuse to climb aboard. It really is pathetic you think yourself intellectually superior to others; even the Pope. Pride is the anchor that will drag you down....<>

391 posted on 12/03/2002 5:41:25 AM PST by Catholicguy
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