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To: restornu
I listen to Christian talk radio at work, and the guy just told a caller
that he doesn't have to feel guilty for not tithing, because the New
Testament does not even mention tithing.......
KJV Luke 11:42
 42.  But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
KJV Luke 18:10-13
 10.  Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
 11.  The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
 12.  I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
 13.  And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
TRUE!  If you use a newer translation than KJV.  It's called a tenth.

and it is "old covenant"
it is OLDER than 'old covenant!!  and........ it was not a command!
NIV Genesis 14:18-20
 18.  Then Melchizedek king of Salem  brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High,
 19.  and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator  of heaven and earth.
 20.  And blessed be  God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand." Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
NIV Genesis 28:10-22
 10.  Jacob left Beersheba and set out for Haran.
 11.  When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep.
 12.  He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
 13.  There above it  stood the LORD, and he said: "I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying.
 14.  Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring.
 15.  I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."
 16.  When Jacob awoke from his sleep, he thought, "Surely the LORD is in this place, and I was not aware of it."
 17.  He was afraid and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven."
 18.  Early the next morning Jacob took the stone he had placed under his head and set it up as a pillar and poured oil on top of it.
 19.  He called that place Bethel,  though the city used to be called Luz.
 20.  Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear
 21.  so that I return safely to my father's house, then the LORD will be my God
 22.  and  this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth."

and doesn't apply since Jesus. 

This doesn't sound right to me.  Can you verify?
Let me know your opinion. Thanks, Susan
How about some Scripture instead? it's AFTER the 10 Commandments have been given, but these rules, laws, commands are NOT part of the 'Covenant'.

NIV Leviticus 27:30
 30.  "`A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.
NIV Numbers 18:21
 21.  "I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting.
NIV Deuteronomy 12:5-6
 5.  But you are to seek the place the LORD your God will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go;
 6.  there bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks.
NIV 2 Chronicles 31:5-6
 5.  As soon as the order went out, the Israelites generously gave the firstfruits of their grain, new wine, oil and honey and all that the fields produced. They brought a great amount, a tithe of everything.
 6.  The men of Israel and Judah who lived in the towns of Judah also brought a tithe of their herds and flocks and a tithe of the holy things dedicated to the LORD their God, and they piled them in heaps.
NIV Malachi 3:8-10
 8.  "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.   "But you ask, `How do we rob you?'   "In tithes and offerings.
 9.  You are under a curse--the whole nation of you--because you are robbing me.
 10.  Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
This is just a small sample of some of the OT verses containing the word 'tithe'.

KJV Hebrews 7:1-12
 1.  For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
 2.  To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
 3.  Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
 4.  Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
 5.  And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
 6.  But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
 7.  And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
 8.  And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
 9.  And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
 10.  For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
 11.  If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
 12.  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
You'll note that the ONLY qualified RECEIVER of tithes were of the 'Sons of Levi' holding the office of 'priesthood'.
With all this, perhaps I ought to give you the 'official' Wesleyan 'Discipline' take on all this..............
Under the heading of Christian Stewardship:
The Scriptures teach that GOD is the owner of all persons and things, that men His stewards of both life and possessions, that GOD's ownership and man's stewardship ought to be acknowledged, and that men shall be held personally accountable to GOD for the exercise of their stewardship.  To this end all His children should faithfully tithe and present offerings for the support of the gospel.
STOREHOUSE TITHING: Storehouse tithing is a scriptural and practical performance of faithfully and regularly placing the tithe into the church to which the member belongs.  Therefore, the financing of the church shall be based on the plan of storehouse tithing, and The Wesleyan Church shall be regarded by all its people as the storehouse.  All who are a part of The Wesleyan Church are urged to contribute faithfully one-tenth of all their increase as a minimum financial obligation to the Lord and freewill offerings in addition as GOD has prospered them.
(With these verses as references........)
NIV Genesis 14:20
 20.  And blessed be  God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand." Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
NIV Genesis 28:22
 22.  and  this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth."

NIV Leviticus 27:30-32
 30.  "`A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.
 31.  If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it.
 32.  The entire tithe of the herd and flock--every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod--will be holy to the LORD.
NIV Deuteronomy 14:22
 22.  Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year.
NIV Proverbs 3:9
 9.  Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops;
NIV Proverbs 3:9-10
 9.  Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops;
 10.  then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over with new wine.
NIV Proverbs 11:24-25
 24.  One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.
 25.  A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed.
NIV Malachi 3:10-11
 10.  Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
 11.  I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty.
NIV Matthew 23:23
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
NIV Acts 4:34-35
 34.  There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales
 35.  and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
NIV Acts 6:1-4
 1.  In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.
 2.  So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, "It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables.
 3.  Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them
 4.  and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word."
NIV 1 Corinthians 16:1-2
 1.  Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do.
 2.  On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
NIV 2 Corinthians 8:13-15
 13.  Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality.
 14.  At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality,
 15.  as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."
NIV Hebrews 7:1-9
 1.  This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him,
 2.  and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means "king of righteousness"; then also, "king of Salem" means "king of peace." 
 6.  This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 
 9.  One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham,

Now then.... just what is an INCREASE???
In farming terms, each year you had to save enough seed for the next years crop, if you ate it or sold it or lost it somehow, you were in BIG TROUBLE!!  If you had a bad crop, you HAD to keep this minimum amount.
So, anything OVER the minimum is known as the 'increase': you plan 10 bushels and harvest 89.  Save the 10 and you got 79.  The 'tithe' would be 10% or 7.9 bushels that would go to the storehouse.
If your herd of ten cows and a bull had 10 calves in the spring, one would go to the church.
Now, in today's economy, what is an INCREASE?
(Here is where there is much 'discussion' ;^)
I see it as whatever your W2 indicates.  Since you had to 'plow' nothing back into your job, ALL your 'income' (from whatever source) is 'increase'.  Some will argue about deductions, that you should only have to tithe AFTER they are subtracted out: just your TAXABLE income.  I can only say that this is not indicated in the Bible.
If it took 3 calves and 26 bushels to make your land payment, that did NOT affect your tithe.  If you had 14 kids, you didn't get a 'deduction' from your tithe.
I think these verses sum up the NT idea of support of the Church............

NIV Luke 6:38
 38.  Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
2 Corinthians 9
 1.  There is no need for me to write to you about this service to the saints.
 2.  For I know your eagerness to help, and I have been boasting about it to the Macedonians, telling them that since last year you in Achaia were ready to give; and your enthusiasm has stirred most of them to action.
 3.  But I am sending the brothers in order that our boasting about you in this matter should not prove hollow, but that you may be ready, as I said you would be.
 4.  For if any Macedonians come with me and find you unprepared, we--not to say anything about you--would be ashamed of having been so confident.
 5.  So I thought it necessary to urge the brothers to visit you in advance and finish the arrangements for the generous gift you had promised. Then it will be ready as a generous gift, not as one grudgingly given.
 6.  Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.
 7.  Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
 8.  And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.
 9.  As it is written: "He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever."
 10.  Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness.
 11.  You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.
 12.  This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of God's people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God.
 13.  Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.
 14.  And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you.
 15.  Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!
You'll note that the Pharisees did what the LAW 'required' with their tithing, but they did not do it from their heart.  We should definitely give what makes us feel good in our hearts.  Some are stingy, and cheat THEMSELVES by not believing what the Scriptures say: others have dug a deep financial hole and cannot see their way to give as much as they like; others WANT too much worldly goods and are 'saving' for it.  But, there are those who accept God's word and ARE blessed by what they give.
....decided in his heart to give.... it appears that the amount is left to the individual.
would be really nice for the church today: a nice COMMAND.  But since the idea of 'commanding' obediance doesn't WORK too well, I guess we are left with the Pastor and/or the Board to still ASK for money when we need it............ [it's worked so far, in everything we've tried!!]

526 posted on 01/31/2003 6:31:21 PM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Elsie
Tithing is really a spiritual yardstick! What I mean is the relation between man and his Creator. Like you said it should be done with a happly heart or one should just skip this ordinance.

What the 10% does is help one to keep their focus on the Lord in many areas in their life.

When one is consistant soon the blessing will over flow and it has happen for many of the LDS that have been faithful.

Some still are caught because of debt and living beyond one means and it dose make it a struggle to fullfil. Yet when the effort is applied along with prayer and daily scripture reading the Lord is able to free up those forces that was holding one hostatge. There are endless stories of where folks were in great trouble money wise and when they learn the laws of money they are amazed how the same amount could meet those obligations. And the door opens for an increase in funds.

This is learning how to exercise faith and grow in the ways of the Lord! One of the ways to exercise the Spiritual muscle!

528 posted on 01/31/2003 7:56:24 PM PST by restornu (<a HREF=" "> Finances)
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To: Elsie

A gif for Elsie!
547 posted on 01/31/2003 11:29:43 PM PST by restornu
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