GIBSON MOVIE ON CRUCIFIXION COMES AT TIME OF NEED BUT WITH SPIRITUAL ATTACK

Spirit Daily ^ | March 12, 2003 | Michael Brown

[abigail2]

I am not catholic, but have always followed the religion and read many of its authors. One of them, Malachi Martin wrote a great book, called 'Windswept House" which discusses the infiltration of the church by evil and the rise of an underground catholic church in America where it seems to be most rampant. Look at all the sexual abuse in the church and the knocks the church is taking because of it. How clever of the devil to infiltrate the church and corrupt it, thereby turning good people away from the church. I feel it is the churche's own fault for letting things go on so long. Malachi Martin knew of it years and years ago. The church should have done it's own housecleaning years ago. Now it is being done in public. I like the pope myself. I don't understand everything, but as a non-catholic I just take what I like and learn from it.

Stop making everything so black and white and discussing things endlessly. Mel is my new hero for what he is doing. It will benefit all churches and all people of good intentions, that want to find God.

[biblewonk]

This post is ripe with unusual words, like "congragants" and "jizmatics"

[abigail2]

I should add, more simply, don't everyone be so intellectual. It's the heart that matters when it comes to God. My non-denominational heart gave a little leap of joy when I heard about Mel's movie and church. God has not abandoned us.

[american colleen]

I don't like the term "traditional" because I consider myself quite traditional, without opposing Rome, and I do enjoy and receive much from the Novus Ordo mass. I try my hardest to adhere to the teachings of the Church, including contraception, abortion, divorce, etc. In that sense, I am traditional.

Me, too. Before I knew about the "traditional" and the "Liberal" and the "conservative" labels that are so divisive in the Church, when someone quizzed me on my "degree" of Catholicism, I used to say "well, I'm kinda traditional... I miss the smells and bells and kneeling and Communion on the tongue and nuns in habits and altar kneelers and the tabernacle on the altar under a crucifix and altar boys, and the beautiful Catholic music and some Latin, etc., etc.

Now I just say "orthodox" and by that I mean what you said. Too sad that we have to put ourselves in some kind of category.

I didn't know Mahony forbid the indult. That is so not surprising, sadly.

Yes, the documents of Vatican II have certainly been hijacked and misused to cause confusion. And separated from the Magisterium as the interpreter by the progressive faction bent on doing what is "best" for the laity and acceptable to non-Catholics.

[american colleen]

Have you ever watched the N.O. Mass on EWTN? It is quite beautiful, IMO.

Having read Sacrosanctum Concilium (the Vatican II document on Liturgy) I can say it is a fairly reasonable document. Having said that I must say that the Novus Ordo Mass does not adhere to much of it.

I read Sacrosanctum Concilium as well and I do think the Novus Ordo adheres to it - it is some of the priests who do not adhere to it.

[Gophack]

Stop making everything so black and white and discussing things endlessly. Mel is my new hero for what he is doing. It will benefit all churches and all people of good intentions, that want to find God.

Don't misunderstand me. I wholly respect Mel Gibson and am in no way attacking him or his faith. Personally, I think he is a devout Catholic and has tried to keep the faith in a difficult time for the church and society.

I am wholeheartedly looking forward to THE PASSION and I think all Christians, Catholic or Protestant, will benefit interiorly from this epic. The Passion of Christ is something all Christians share; by Gibson focusing on this anchor of Christian faith I think will do more to bring Christians together, as one body in Christ, than any other movie or film to date.

God bless.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

I would not encourage the schismatic path. However, it might have helped if Mr. Brown, who on occasion has promoted unauthorized Marian messages, had noted that "obedience" to the Novus Ordo bishop not infrequently involves Catholics in equally if not more bizarre irregularities. Mahony, for instance, involves the Catholic laity in his care in dumping tens of millions into the quagmire of a monstrously neo-modernist cathedral. When Weakland still roamed the land, he presided over monstrous wreckovation. And then there are the sodomite rape scandals. The oversimplified version of disobedient, wacky "traditionalists" countered by the pristine and sanitized CUF interpretation of Vatican II does not do justice the absurdities which followed the postconciliar apocalypse of the 1960s. Merely following your local bishop in "obedience" does not necessarily result in a happy orthodox situation at the nearby parish. It hasn't in our diocese in about 35 years. (I'm not a member of any "traditionalist" organizations, but I can understand why some Catholics would get fed up enough with the nonsense out there authorized by the official Church in "the spirit of Vatican II.")

To get the Latin Mass and orthodox Catholicism, one need not take the schismatic path, but you may have to look very hard. No one could guarantee that were Mel Gibson a non-traditionalist following the neo-modernist "renewal" of Vatican II in sheepish obedience, that periodically he would not encounter bizarre and strange divergences from orthodoxy all under the watch of the local bishop appointed and authorized by Rome and "the spirit of Vatican II." Indeed, dare we say it, Mr. Gibson's children could have been raped by their Vatican II priest and the local bishop and his staff might very well have shielded the rapist!!! It is entirely understandable why some Catholics have chosen other options for their spiritual lives. Again, I don't support schismatic organizations or movements who theorize about anti-popes, but the problems in the official Church fuel and energize such schismatically traditionalist styles. The irregularities of the Mahony and Weakland types deserve more attention than Mr. Gibson. Schism doesn't materialize out of thin air.

[abigail2]

Yes, I agree with you. Go Mel

[abigail2]

I forgot to thank you for posting this great article.

[NYer]

Merely following your local bishop in "obedience" does not necessarily result in a happy orthodox situation at the nearby parish. It hasn't in our diocese in about 35 years. (I'm not a member of any "traditionalist" organizations, but I can understand why some Catholics would get fed up enough with the nonsense out there authorized by the official Church in "the spirit of Vatican II.")

I truly appreciate your posts for their garulous nature. You never mince words.

Once again, you have hit the nail on its head. No need to sign up with the schismatics to attend a licit mass. Check out my other post:

How To Address A Liturgical Abuse

I am becoming better at this each day. My pastor thinks he can hoodwink the congregation .... he made the mistake of asking me to help out with the Religious Ed program. Nothing like a trip inside the workings of the parish to "turn me on".

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Well, we just try to tell it like it is.

I love the Catholic Church but a healthy sense of realism about some of the fools, fopdoodles, and scoundrels directing a bit of it in the US comes in handy. I worked at a Jesuit institution of higher education in the past, so I have seen the silliness up close. Attending primarily the N.O. Mass in English with prayerful asceticism, but remaining a little more aloof from direct contact with clergy outside of the sacraments has reduced my headaches a little in recent years. While praying for the Church, regretfully, I do not expect much to improve in our diocese until we see some more courageous leadership from the hierarchy. Conservatives and traditionalists can do much for the cause by avoiding some of the more extreme postures which distract from the real problems. But, of course, there is simply no reason for silliness at Mass. And there is no objective reason for Mass not to be offered in the traditional style where a priest is available and willing to say it.

We can make the efforts to pray at home, watch Catholic films and television, read good Catholic books, and hold to the real faith amidst the present reigning darkness and diabolism. Keeping the faith and Catholic families alives requires heroic efforts now. They are worthwhile. We should absolutely reject all silliness and absurdity presented as "Catholicism." How people want to voice their displeasure is an individual judgment call. And, above all, we can pray for conversions and for sinners. The age of faith and miracles doesn't end simply because the media prefers banality, vulgarity,secularism, and the sordid varieties of neo-gnostic circus culture swilling around the postmodern American wasteland. No one need willingly submit to the JerrySpringerization that seems to dominate.

[janetgreen]

Mel is my new hero for what he is doing. It will benefit all churches and all people of good intentions, that want to find God.

Ditto. I don't care which side of the church Mel is on, I think he's a good man.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

My pastor thinks he can hoodwink the congregation .... he made the mistake of asking me to help out with the Religious Ed program. Nothing like a trip inside the workings of the parish to "turn me on". 30 posted on 03/12/2003 4:26 PM PST by NYer (Kyrie Eleison)

"The Lord works in mysterious ways."

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

I think he's a good man.

And we can always use a few of those around.

[TradicalRC]

Some of the priests? I have yet to attend a Novus Ordo that has "retained the use of Latin" or given "Gregorian chant pride of place in liturgical services".

[TradicalRC]

We have been unplugged for about three years now. Cable was removed several years ago. Even PBS had stuff in their children's programming that was unacceptable. All we ever watch are videos which we carefully screen. (Four daughters ages 1 and 1/2 to 7and 1/2). The fact that "liturgical abuse" has become so widespread should give many Catholics pause whether they are traditional or not. God is indeed sovereign but He has it seems allowed a dark spirit to wreak havoc within his church. Perhaps this is how He is separating the wheat from the chaff. I can only ask St. Athanasius to intercede for us and pray "How long O Lord..."

[TradicalRC]

I was at one time a great supporter of ecumenism. However, too many water down their faith and sacrifice Truth for the sake of unity. I actually prefer the company of more conservative denominations as they still believe in an unmalleable truth."God is the same from age to age" I had struggled for years to put my finger on what properly divides one plethora of denominations from another. I realized two things. 1. The authentic Christians believe that God is real and He is who He said He is in Scripture, while the nominal Christians believe in the Idea of God (which is malleable and changes with the times). 2. Generally those who subscribe to the tenets of the Nicene Creed are orthodox while the rest are not.

[TradicalRC]

God gave us an intellect as well as a heart. To uphold one over the other is false. One must serve God with his whole heart and mind and soul.

[Gophack]

I agree with you, and I think it really depends on how we define "ecumenism". I do not support watering down the faith or sacrificing the Truth for unity. There are many Protestant denominations who are quite conservative and believe in the one and unchanging God. We need to build on on our common beliefs, and go from there, relying on the Holy Spirit to guide individuals into the fullness of Faith.

God bless.

[PaxChristi]

Stop making everything so black and white and discussing things endlessly. Mel is my new hero...

Making a movie in the original biblical languages. That is Radtrad's reductio ad absurdism. Flee the vernacular (which the biblical languages were at one time, recall) and take refuge in languages that have become dead. This is supposed to be piety? A furtherance of the Gospel and understanding?

More like Radtrad terror of the present and lack of faith in the risen Christ who urged that the Gospel be spoken to all peoples.

How sad.