No Clapping, Dancing at Mass, Vatican to Warn

Reuters ^ | Tue, Sep 23, 2003 | Philip Pullella

[presidio9]

No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.

Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.

According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.

The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.

If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.

According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."

The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.

Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.

Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.

The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."

Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.

Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.

The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.

The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.

It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.

Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.

"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.

[Aquinasfan]

Well, dear Aquinasfan, are you? (smile)

8-)

[Aliska]

Do you write for The Onion? Your comments are so absurd, I'm hoping that you're a talented satirist.

If you find them absurd, then you have more of a problem than I do. I suggest you seek help.

[ninenot]

I'll make my daughter wear gun oil as a perfume

That will clog her pores and give her acne.

Use Hoppe's #9. Clear, solvent but not aggressive--and an absolutely UNMISTAKABLE odor.

[Aliska]

There are many, many men who place women on a pedestal

I met a few that treated me with respect, sometimes fairness, but I was never put on a pedestal. You must be from the south. Most men I dealt with tried to take advantage of me one way or another.

[JohnnyZ]

Who was the commencement speaker this year?

I don't remember -- I suspect a pro-abort politician? My sister is an alumna, and I remember talking about it with my parents, but HC was one of dozens of Catholic colleges to hold up unsavory people as sources of wisdom, and I don't remember who theirs was.

[geaux]

I don't think so. I'm well-adjusted and don't hate my gender.

[Aquinasfan]

But every now and then, even he stepped on his dork.

ROTFLOL!

[presidio9]

Suprise, suprise. This year's commencement speaker was Chris Matthews. When my brother graduated, I believe the speaker was Senator John Danforth. Justice Scalia's son was in my brother's class. Here is Matthews' Commencement address:

http://college.holycross.edu/commencement/matthews_speech.htm

[Aliska]

You were able to get married and find love again which would account for your better attitude. I don't think I will ever heal; the scars are too deep and it's gone on too long.

[presidio9]

According to that webpage, former commencement speakers at Holy Cross included Mario Cuomo, Bill Bradley, Maria Shriver, Brant Gumbel, and (of course) "The Honorable Senator Edward Kennedy." What the hell goes on with that? Isn't Holy Cross supposed to be, like, the most Catholic liberal arts college in the nation by demographic?

[RaginCajunTrad]

From the south, yes. That's the ragin cajun part. Southern gentleman all the way, though at times a complete cad unfortunately. Not all concept of honor and gallantry died with the confederacy. I pray you find the one.

[Aquinasfan]

Well, a building is just a building.

And the Temple in Jerusalem was "just a building"?

[Aquinasfan]

You have offered nothing to lift me up.

Do you hear yourself?

[Thorondir]

I am also a Roman Catholic.

It should give you pause to reflect on your actions when nobody believes this of you and you feel you have to shout it from the rooftops.

[Thorondir]

The Holy Mass is the re-presentation of our Lord's sacrifice on the Cross. The only clapping, dancing and shouts of joy there came from his enemies. Clap away, if it makes you happy. You are not one of us, anyway.

[Aquinasfan]

I see. The Bishops have this prohibited. But where does God prohibit it?

The voice of God is most surely heard through His Church (which includes oral and written Tradition and the Magisterium), the shepards of which are the bishops, the successors of the Apostles.

[harbingr]

Catholic writers & Saints? well, My father's favorite was:...

Bishop Fulton Sheen - 'Life Is worth Living'...Biography & writings

(soon to be an American Saint, I'm sure)

[presidio9]

If I may step in for a moment Aliska, attending adult study groups to become reaquainted with the Church (you have some very misguided ideas about Catholicism) might also be a great way to meet a decent minded Catholic man. There are a lot of us out here who listen to the words of Christ and treat women the way He wishes them to be treated. A lot of Parishes sponsor adult singles retreats for just this purpose. All of us on this thread sincerely want you to be happy. But you have to take the first step. Wallowing in self pity is a downward spiral. Most of us have been there. He can show you the way out.

[Aquinasfan]

Applause that "distracts from worhip and praise of God?" Hmmm...

Like clapping for the choir. As I've said over and over again. Is this so difficult to comprehend?

[Aliska]

You sound like an upbeat person and I wish I could honestly be more like that. I took my crucifix off and don't wear it any more. When I did try to do those things, I was forcing myself to do them because that's what I thought I ought to do, what good Christians do. Nothing I ever

I think you have a healthy attitude about serving God and taking it out to the world. If I weren't so empty inside, I could do that, too. You can't give out what you don't have. The only thing I can bring myself to do is little things for a friend.

One of the hardest things to do is be down all the time and try to put on a cheerful face.