I do not know the extent of Beck's crimes. He may well have deserved a search warrant, or being served a warrant regarding other charges. Clearly, without very undue and abusive actions, he should not have fired on the officers.

I do know the story changed drastically after the shooting and after the fire started. The initial reports have disappeared from the air waves and from print ... perhaps they were in error ... but THAT much different? ... all I know is what I heard as it transpired.

In any case, such actions regarding the end game in this situation are not the conditions one should see in our Constitutional Republic. The blatant effort to let the crime scene and the perp burn and then to quickly bulldoze away any remaining evidence is extremely disconcerting ... it insures that we cannot really know what occurred at the outset of this tragic event ... not a good omen, not a good omen at all. Even with the tragedy, even with the accusations, we still have due process in this nation. Such rights hold us above despots and so called banana republics around the globe. When due process is trampled ... it cannot, it will not lead to a good place.

Give me Liberty or Give me Death

FYI ... my take.

FYI ... my take.

FYI ... my take.

Your are simply re-repeating the unsubstantiated rumors the media reported during and soon after the incident.

Perp shot and killed another human being. He died, as he deserved to. Case closed.

FYI ... my take.

By even daring to wonder what really happened here, you are defining yourself to be a "cop-hater" and an anarchist.

Sounds like your take is pretty much the same as mine.

No, I am repeating what I heard and saw at the time.

Read the entire document.

In this nation, that individual had due process coming to him. If he was shot in the act of shooting others, or shooting at others ... I agree whole heartedly ... unless of course he was shooting because of terrible abuse or infringement (which I do not at this time believe was necessarily the case which is why I stated what I did in the article).

But, he died in a fire, a fire that clearly was not put out, or attempted to be put out by the arriving equipment. After a very shor time, the remains were bulldozed. I take issue with these things ... even if the guy is as guilty as sin. Such actions do not add or lend trust to the official story. Such actions are not in keeping with the due process rights we are to all enjoy and which separate us form all forms of tyranny.

In addition, the employment of weapons like you see in these photographs in a domestic law enforcement operation are beyond the line IMHO.

Jeff, the only way the information does NOT change in a crisis situation is if the story is pre-scripted in advance.

During disaster exercises (aircraft crash drills and the like) in the USMC, we always had "perfect" information that didn't change in the slightest during the exercise. When things went wrong in real life, 90% of the starting info was wrong, and 80% of the "corrected" information would be incorrect as well. That ALWAYS snake-bit us, but the training drills never seemed to get more realistic.

Your are simply re-repeating the unsubstantiated rumors the media reported during and soon after the incident.

Yes of course. Government told us what happened. Nothing to see here. Pay no attention to those armored vehicles rolling through suburban neighborhoods. We need to just move on.

Many have been programmed to believe this. I am not one of those and have no concern about any untrue or maligning representations.

As I told MB26 above, even if the perp was guilty as sin ... due process applies ... or should be applied by the officers of government. When it is not, we are all in danger.

That is my issue here, along with the deep concern regarding the types of weaponry being employed in domestic law enforcement operations ... such weapons endanger all of the public for blocks and blocks around.

Thanks bro. As always, hope all is well with you and yours.

The M60 on top of the armored car really set me off, along with the fire being allowed to burn like that.

Regards.

I am in total agreement with you. I just wanted you to be ready for all the incomings.

biting my tongue, and biding my time

I spent many hours posting on various threads advancing the same argument. Good luck - there's no convincing some.

Do we know the girlfriend's name yet, and where she is? Or is she still in "protective custody?"

Burning the house down was a bit too much like WACO for my liking. And you will note the use of phrases like "weapons stockpiling" to dehumanize Beck, is somewhat reminiscent of WACO as well. Hell, he didn't have half the weapons many here on FR do.

And the bulldozer was just a bit quick on the draw.

Beck may have been guilty as sin... but his guilt or innocence is not the issue. The procedures undertaken by law enforcement officers was the issue.

Let me put it this way. Imagine that a-hole was in the house next to yours. Do you want to cops to try to evict him with .38 revolvers, or should they bring in all they got? They heavy weapons were not used, but I'm glad they were there to be used if needed.

#2. This BS we see on FR that all cops are bad is simply BS. Some bad, some good.

Finally, I've got an idea for all the armchair commandos on FR. Next time there is an incident like this, we'll call you. You do with the perp as you please. We'll sit back and watch the media get all of your actions amd motives wrong, and use this forum to critisize you.

I'm amazed that this argument is still raging. And it always seems to be the same players on either side of the issue. And no common ground is ever struck. And personal attacks and vitriol are the order of the day.