Posted on 09/13/2001 2:35:16 AM PDT by xm177e2
This was posted as a thread hours after the attack, but it was pulled probably because FR was clogged and vanities were not welcome. But seeing how everyone and his nuke-slinging brother are now posting vanities, I thought I would repost this.
We need to focus our rage on something more democratic than just killing those responsible, we need to increase our focus on more than just the immediate. Getting revenge on these terrorists is not enough, and it won't solve the problem, which is that a large number of Muslim countries in the world support this Jihad against us. They are at war with us.
For any country that harbors terrorists: We need to DEMAND they institute reforms, immediately. reedom of speech, religion, protest, press--all of the civil liberties, even the right to bear arms. All ten of our first Amdendments. They also need to round up and execute ALL of their terrorists, or hand them over to us. They know where they are. Imprisoning them is not enough, they could escape. And most of the time, when Muslim countries have detained terrorists, they let them out after a few years. We cannot afford that possibility. They need to remove the lies from their textbooks, they need to remove the extremist religious leaders from their government. They need to stop rich Muslims from sending money to the terrorists.
If they do this, we might be able to move the Middle East towards peace, real peace. We might be able to eliminate the CANCER of extremist, TERRORIST Islam. Moderate Islam MUST replace it. Moderate Islam is the mortal enemy of extremist Islam, spreading that is the best way to kill it.
If we are angry enough, we can make them do this, and they probably will, especially if the rest of the world joins us in demanding this. If not, we will declare war on them as supporters of terrorists who have attacked us, and therefore claim they have started the war against us. We will use airstrikes to cripple them, and--only if necessary--invade on the ground and reduce them to rubble.
We must declare war on EVERY SINGLE Muslim country in the world that supports terrorism (Turkey, Egypt, Kuwait--countries like those probably will not need this treatment, if the come out on our side). They MUST be made to accept these conditions of liberty, or they must be overthrown. If they do not accept this, terrorists will have fertile ground from which to work against us. Remember that this attack was only possible because of the support of several nations.
We cannot accept that in this modern world nations would support terrorism. We cannot accept these ACTS OF WAR against us, we need to take action that will ensure peace and stability in the world for the years to come.
Huntington was right, it's Jihad vs. America. In order to win this fight, we need to do more than kill the right people, we need to save all of them from Muslim extremism.
TERRORISM is the enemy, not Osama. If Osama were able to escape today, live in a cave somewhere in the desert, and never launch another terrorist attack, we will have won. This is not to say that he shouldn't be killed--I believe he should. But the enemy we are facing is not any specific terrorist group, but terrorism, especially Islamic terrorism, in general.
Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, the Palestinian Area, Pakistan, Sudan, Libya, Albania: These all support terrorism whole-heartedly. These are terrorist states, and need to be dealt with. Pakistan hosts terrorist training camps, just a day or two ago Muslim terrorists over there deliberately killed some Indian children. Any of these countries COULD come to our side, I'm wouldn't write them off, but they will probably be our enemy.
Egypt, Kuwait and Turkey will almost definitely support us.
Indonesia: I don't know much about Indonesia. If they are a problem, Australia can take them on.
Status of the Non-Muslim World:
Israel: On our side, no question, ready to go to war on a weeks notice, could take Syria and Arafat on easily. Jordan and Egypt should not attack Israel, if they do, it could be problematic, but we'll have our forces in the Gulf anyway (I'll get to what we do later)
India: the recent attack by Pakistani terrorists was the first to target children, they are enraged, and a large number of the people working in the WTC were of Indian descent. They can support us against Pakistan, if need be.
Russia: They can support the rebels in Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban. It would be like the invasion of Grenada for us, Vietnam II, done right. This time, they would be working with rebels instead of against them. We need to move fast against the Taliban, especially if Osama has nukes.
China: Won't be very happy with this plan, but we can assure them that if they don't attack us, and if they keep making cheap stuff for us, that we won't pressure them. We can only tackle one problem at a time. Besides, it appears they are EVER SO SLOWLY edging towards a few more freedoms. As long as this trend continues, we shouldn't interfere. We want China to be totally uninvolved with this.
Europe: Will donate lots of money to humanitarian causes in Africa, and we'll consider them to have donated our share, too. We can limit our humanitarian aid for a while while we wage this war. If Europe doesn't want to fight, we can't make them. If any European countries want to help, they can help out in Albania (the expansionist Muslims there need to be contained, a few airstrikes in conjuction with Macedonia and Serbia would fix them), the Gulf or northern Africa. If they don't want to fight, they don't have to. After all, I call the French "Vichy Whores" for a reason.
America: We go after every other terrorist entity, especially Iraq, but also Iran, and, if need be, Saudi Arabia. We will also have to defend Kuwait, they've very publicly announced they are on our side of this.
But other countries, like Syria, have bigger problems. If Syria start persecuting their terrorists, we let the Kurds have a large chunk of it. They can form their Kurdistan. It would be nice if Turkey would donate a bit of their land to Turkistan, but that would not be necessary.
In Sudan, we could support Christian rebels, in Iraq, there is a resistance (which was abandoned by Daddy Bush, George W. Bush owes the Iraqi resistance, bigtime).
These evil countries have made lots of enemies because of their evil nature--we can use that to our advantage.
While placing security cameras everywhere makes it difficult for the same terrorists to make repeated attacks, the kind we are dealing with are suicidal, and need only one chance. Increased security at airports which increases delays--I don't consider that to be a violation of our civil liberties. Banning all knives onboard planes? That doesn't violate our liberties, but it is stupid. Their should be a knife under every seat, a Taser on every steward/ess, and a pistol in the locked pilot's compartment. The pilots compartment should be locked with two doors, like an airlock. That would be enough to stop this sort of attack.
As our president said, these people are the enemies of Freedom and Democracy. Let's not forget WHY we're fighting this war in the first place.
It's obvious the terrorist attacks on America Tuesday, were designed to create economic havoc within our borders, perhaps even cause a depression. It is the duty of every American to not allow that to happen. If our buying habits are curtailed, our economy will suffer, and they will have won.
With all the "breaking news," it's difficult to turn off the television, and go buy that special item you had planned on purchasing . . . or just to take the family out to dinner. We encourage everyone to Fly "Old Glory", and continue on as you always have. To all that have lost family, loved ones, and friends, we offer this special prayer:
A Prayer for America:
http://www.dobhran.com/greetings/GRprayerforusa.htm
To our enemies, we need this attack to simply be a minor economic speed bump that has awakened a sleeping GIANT that is united in it's resolve.
"The deliberate and deadly attacks . . . were more than acts of terror. They were acts of war. The United States of America will use all our resources to conquer this enemy. We will rally the world. We will be patient. We'll be focused, and we will be steadfast in our determination. This battle will take time and resolve, but make no mistake about it, we will win."
- President George W. Bush
"In this storm-tossed world of terrorists and totalitarians, America must always champion freedom, for freedom is the one tide that will lead us to the safe and open harbor of peace."
- Ronald Reagan
"The American People are slow to wrath, but when their wrath is once kindled it burns like a consuming flame."
- Theodore Roosevelt
Please pass this message on to all on your e-mail list.
I agree with this in principle but would add a few details.
We have proven with Japan that it is possible to "impose democracy" from the outside. We took over Japan, and we occupied Japan for, what, about a decade. We were the governemnt for awhile, then gradually we turned it over to the Japanese themselves, insisting on democratic institutions, free elections, etc. (They had a form of parliamentary democracy before, but greatly restricted only to the proper castes, etc.)
We didn't totally destroy their institutions--we wisely allowed the Emperor to keep his throne--but we IMPOSED correct forms of government on them.
Since we left, they've done pretty well on their own, with no resurgence of the old status quo even threatening.
That is what we need to do in the Middle East. We can't reason with them. No dialogue is possible. Those who we believe to be our friends, aren't. We have no friends among the Arab countries of the Middle East. At least, none with power.
That can change. We can invade, conquer, occupy, and we can find people in those countries, maybe even Arabs and others who live now in the U.S., who are educated, who respect U.S. institutions, and we can put them in positions of power and responsibility there.
In short, we can transform the region. That will take care of the terror problem, I think, once and for all.
That's the key to winning the ultimate victory.
These are not people you can negotiate with. These are not people who will stop their actions due to a few surgical strikes.
It's a problem with fanatical terrorists who use a very perverted twist of "Islam" to justify their hatred and their murderous natures.
I have many Muslim friends. They are not murderers.
You are right, Islam is only part of the bigger problem.
It's a problem with fanatical terrorists who use a very perverted twist of "Islam" to justify their hatred and their murderous natures.
I find it interesting that I have never really seen a "moderate" Muslim exposition of the Quran which boldy and clearly speaks out against the Medina Suras which cleary call on Muslims to kill unbelievers. My take is that these fanatical terrorists actually understand the true teachings of Mohammed very well. I have many Muslim friends. They are not murderers.
Me to. Mine are not either (not all of them anyway--yes, I do know of some murderous acts some Muslims I know have committed in other countries). However, they are good friends with me. But your spirit of your remake is correct, all of them are not murderers and most would not commit acts of violence.
Well, I have. In fact, I first heard a detailed exposition of what Muslims believe when I heard an engineering professor at the University of Tulsa give a talk several years ago, on "What is Islam?"
What I heard amazed me. It was NOT the popular conception at all that was left in the wake of the Iranian hostage crisis. It was much closer to my own beliefs as a Latter-Day Saint in many ways, than the obscure mumbo-jumbo that I had imagined.
For instance, this is where I first learned that the ACTUAL concept of "Jihad" is "the struggle within," that is, the war between the flesh and the spirit that occupies any person of faith. True, the meaning has been perverted, partly on purpose and partly because of a mistranslation of Arabic terms.
There is a very good synopsis of true Islamic teaching found on THIS THREAD.
Now here is some homework: take that article into any, I say ANY, "moderate" mosque in America and talk to the leaders about the main points of this article.
Then let me know if most of these "moderate" Muslims at the mosque agree with the article. If most do, ask the the leader to preach that message contained in this article during their Friday prayers.
I don't believe any Islamic leader in any mosque can preach this message that the Jews have a right to the land of Israel and get away with it, no less supported by the masses of even "moderate" Muslims.
I would be glad to be proven wrong on this, however. If Muslims actually support the concept that the land belongs to the Jews, then I'll move on the the next subject: the historical death of Jesus and the Quranic denial of his death.
Well, I have. In fact, I first heard a detailed exposition of what Muslims believe when I heard an engineering professor at the University of Tulsa give a talk several years ago, on "What is Islam?"
What I heard amazed me. It was NOT the popular conception at all that was left in the wake of the Iranian hostage crisis. It was much closer to my own beliefs as a Latter-Day Saint in many ways, than the obscure mumbo-jumbo that I had imagined.
For instance, this is where I first learned that the ACTUAL concept of "Jihad" is "the struggle within," that is, the war between the flesh and the spirit that occupies any person of faith. True, the meaning has been perverted, partly on purpose and partly because of a mistranslation of Arabic terms.
There is a very good synopsis of true Islamic teaching found on THIS THREAD.
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