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How the World Trade Center Fell (Deadly Mistakes Made "I Would Have Given Order To Get Out!"Expert)
BBC ^ | September 13, 2001 | BBC Staff

Posted on 09/14/2001 12:27:43 AM PDT by t-shirt

How the World Trade Center fell

Thursday, 13 September, 2001, 12:59 GMT 13:59 UK

By BBC News

Sheila Barter

The design of the World Trade Center saved thousands of lives by standing for well over an hour after the planes crashed into its twin towers, say structural engineers.

It was the fire that killed the buildings - nothing on Earth could survive those temperatures with that amount of fuel burning
-- Structural engineer Chris Wise

But the towers' ultimate collapse was inevitable, as the steel cores inside them reached temperatures of 800C - raising questions as to why hundreds of rescue workers were sent into the doomed buildings to their deaths.

The steel and concrete structure performed amazingly well, said John Knapton, professor in structural engineering at Newcastle University, UK.

"I believe tens of thousands of lives have been saved by the structural integrity of the buildings," he told BBC News Online.

"They had a lot of their structure taken out, yet they remained intact for more than an hour, allowing thousands to escape."

Temperatures at 800C

But as fires raged in the towers, driven by aviation fuel, the steel core in each building would have eventually reached 800C - hot enough to start buckling and collapsing.

The protective concrete cladding on the cores would have been no permanent defence in these extraordinary circumstances - keeping the intense heat at bay for only a limited timespan.

Nothing is designed or will be designed to withstand that fire
World Trade Center construction manager

"It was the fire that killed the buildings. There's nothing on earth that could survive those temperatures with that amount of fuel burning," said structural engineer Chris Wise.

"The columns would have melted, the floors would have melted and eventually they would have collapsed one on top of each other."

The building's construction manager, Hyman Brown, agreed that nothing could have saved it from the inferno.

"This building would have stood had a plane or a force caused by a plane smashed into it," he said.

I would have given the order to get out - you would have thought someone with technical expertise would have been advising them
Professor John Knapton, Newcastle University

"But steel melts, and 24,000 gallons (91,000 litres) of aviation fluid melted the steel. Nothing is designed or will be designed to withstand that fire."

Once the steel frame on one floor had melted, it collapsed downwards, inflicting massive forces on the already-weakened floor below.

Science of collapse

From then on, the collapse became inevitable, as each new falling floor added to the downward forces.

Further down the building, even steel at normal temperatures gave way under the enormous weight - an estimated 100,000 tonnes from the upper floors alone.

"It was as if the top of the building was acting like a huge pile-driver, crashing down on to the floors underneath," said Chris Wise.

Early in the unfolding horror, some office workers were told to stay where they were - dreadful advice, said Professor Knapton.

The towers withstood impact but not inferno

People's only hope was to run and keep running - reaching open ground. The building could have fallen over sideways, he points out, potentially bringing even greater devastation.

Other buildings - including the 47-storey Salomon Brothers building - caved in later, weakened by the earlier collapses, and more nearby buildings may still fall, say engineers.

But the eventual collapse of the twin towers was so predictable that the order should have been given to withdraw emergency services within an hour, said Professor Knapton. He watched in horror, knowing the building would fall within two hours.

The hundreds of dead firemen and police officers should simply not have been there, he said.

"I think they should not have gone in at all," he said. "If they did decide to take the risk, they should have been pulled out after an hour."

But in the panic and horror, the order was never given for rescue workers to abandon the building. "Mistakes were made," said Professor Knapton.

It was like a horror film and I think people's rationale had gone
Professor John Knapton

"It sounds harsh - this had never happened in the world, so you can hardly criticise them.

"But I would have given the order to get out. You would have thought someone with technical expertise would have been advising them."

But he acknowledged that the sheer scale of the tragedy probably overwhelmed the operation commanders.

"I think everyone was not thinking. It was like a horror film and I think people's rationale had gone," he said.

Steel-core design

The building's design was standard in the 1960s, when construction began on what was then the world's tallest building. At the heart of the structure was a vertical steel and concrete core, housing lift shafts and stairwells.

Steel beams radiate outwards and connect with steel uprights, forming the building's outer wall.

All the steel was covered in concrete to guarantee firefighters a minimum period of one or two hours in which they could operate - although aviation fuel would have driven the fire to higher-than-normal temperatures. The floors were also concrete.

The building had to be tough enough to withstand not just the impact of a plane - and the previous bomb attack in 1993 - but also of the enormous structural pressures created by strong winds.

Newer skyscrapers are constructed using cheaper methods. But this building was magnificent, say experts, in the face of utterly unpredictable disaster.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; News/Current Events
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Please pray for survivors and those who are still trapped alive inside.
1 posted on 09/14/2001 12:27:43 AM PDT by t-shirt
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To: Uncle Bill archy freedom007 Jackie222 JudyB1938 Free Vulcan America B4Ranch FormerLurker brat blam
It's a crying shame that some people were told not to leave and that rescue workers weren't warned to get out after an hour.
2 posted on 09/14/2001 12:31:02 AM PDT by t-shirt
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To: freeplancer Mugwort PRND21 Demidog Stingray ouroboros Dan from Michigan branicap Styria longfellow
bump
3 posted on 09/14/2001 12:33:11 AM PDT by t-shirt
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To: Slyfox supercat oxi-nato rundy DoughtyOne SAR1 doug from upland Manny Festo Darth Sidious dead
bump
4 posted on 09/14/2001 12:35:23 AM PDT by t-shirt
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To: cruiserman Black Cat Victoria Delsoul sarcasm toenail Hidy JohnHuang2 ratcat MHGinTN WileyCoyote22
bump
5 posted on 09/14/2001 12:38:09 AM PDT by t-shirt
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To: t-shirt
I'm not going to give my full opinion on this for a week or two. Yesterday morning about 2:00 a.m. I had about a five or six paragraph editorial all worked up on this very topic.

During my last read I considered that some poor grieving soul might come by the forum and read my thoughts. I didn't have the heart to post them.

In time there will be questions asked. Not all the answers are going to be ones everyone will like.

6 posted on 09/14/2001 12:39:26 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: t-shirt
.. raising questions as to why hundreds of rescue workers were sent into the doomed buildings to their deaths.

Because we are human, disasters like this only happen in the movies or so we thought, nobody but nobody ever thought we would see this type of calamity.
The selfless acts of those firemen and police proved that we are good and we are right.

7 posted on 09/14/2001 12:40:42 AM PDT by this_ol_patriot
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To: Jethro Tull Mercuria freeeee it'salmosttolate FITZ monkeyshine Dog gonzo lmr ppaul Cincinatus' Wife
bump
8 posted on 09/14/2001 12:42:25 AM PDT by t-shirt
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To: OKC Conspira-loons
I'm waiting for Gen. Partin's report. It's OBVIOUS that the WTC couldn't have collapsed without
demolition charges placed on several columns INSIDE the building where the plane crashed.

:(

9 posted on 09/14/2001 12:42:51 AM PDT by dbbeebs
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To: t-shirt
I had a great expirience three years ago visiting WTC!It was in any sense,a magnificent creation!And,did save life of many people!I was surprised that building didn`t topple when the second plane struck!

The credit should be given to the builders.

Terrible!

10 posted on 09/14/2001 12:43:22 AM PDT by branicap
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To: DoughtyOne
If we don't have the courage and foresight to ask the questions now, no one will have to answer them now or later.
11 posted on 09/14/2001 12:44:24 AM PDT by t-shirt
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To: t-shirt
"It was as if the top of the building was acting like a huge pile-driver, crashing down on to the floors underneath," said Chris Wise.

The huge pile-driver would have to be the heavy computer-controlled concrete block at the very top of each tower used to control the sway of the building and to keep people from feeling nauseous. I haven't heard anyone discuss it.

12 posted on 09/14/2001 12:47:16 AM PDT by Slyfox
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To: t-shirt
They have my prayers, as do the rescuers, as does our nation.

I think that it was architectural arrogance to make buildings so tall and to hold so many people , "just because we can do it, and we want to build the tallest buildings in the world" Some of the survivors said that it took them an entire half hour to run all the way down. It was confusing because the stairwell that some people were in ended on the 72nd floor. They had thousands of people cramming into tiny stairwells, while a normal sized building would have had many fewer. In the end the loss of life was so enormous because our enemy knew that there were tens of thousands of americans highly concentrated in a tiny space. What an inviting target for a mad suicide bomber.

Additionally, the buildings proved to be the demise of the buildings around them. One 40 story building collapsed Tuesday. There are now a number of other buildings on the verge of collapse, and they weren't the target. Their damage was caused by neighboring buildings that towered hundreds of feet above before they came crashing down on top of them.

I am sure that there would have been much greater loss of life at the Pentagon if it had the same people capacity, but were a skyscraper. It was great that it was all spread out, with many exits.

I will never forget the images of the poor people above the impact sites at the World Trade Center, hanging out windows, doomed, or jumping to their deaths. That didn't need to happen.

13 posted on 09/14/2001 12:47:45 AM PDT by passionfruit
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To: t-shirt
"It was as if the top of the building was acting like a huge pile-driver, crashing down on to the floors underneath," said Chris Wise.

I wonder if there would be any way of constructing a building in such a way that between every ten floors or so there was a space which could crush either elastically or plastically in the event of structural failure above it? Otherwise any skyscraper is going to have the risk of a sufficiently bad fire anyway pancaking the entire building.

14 posted on 09/14/2001 12:48:00 AM PDT by supercat
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To: dbbeebs
Actually General Partin says he hasn't seen any evidence of demolition charges of in this case, although he admits he has not seen everything on television, etc, and they could have been used, (but he repeats) he has seen no evidence of such.

Partin also says the buildings would crash at some point after the steel reached enough heat. He says once several floors crashed at the top, the lower floors would crash in a chain reaction.

(To me it seems strange that the lower floors would crash if they had not even been exposed to tremendous heat yet.)

But I am not the expert.

15 posted on 09/14/2001 12:53:23 AM PDT by t-shirt
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To: supercat
The only thing I can see that would stop a steel building from crashing after a few hours would be to line the concrete surrounded structure with a layer of asbestos.

I am surprised they don't used asbestos to line the structure.

Or maybe I'm not surprised, steel and concrete are relatively cheap compared to asbestos.

It might greatly increase the cost of the building.

16 posted on 09/14/2001 12:58:54 AM PDT by t-shirt
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To: t-shirt
As soon as the first aircraft hit I would have been nothing but elbows and a__holes no reason to hang around in those buildings. But, I don't think that prople on floors above the crashes could get out at all.
17 posted on 09/14/2001 1:31:56 AM PDT by Mike Darancette
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To: passionfruit
While I understand your concern, do say the same thing about a stadium or other place where people gather like a NASCAR race? A 747 going into a Super Bowl game stadium could easily kill 40,000 people in a single instant.

I don't believe it is the arrogance of man to build these things. It is the ignorance of man that destroys them.

18 posted on 09/14/2001 1:33:49 AM PDT by DB
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To: passionfruit
Ack...

Should say "... concern, do you say the same thing..."

19 posted on 09/14/2001 1:36:11 AM PDT by DB
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To: t-shirt
To me it seems strange that the lower floors would crash

the entire 110 floor structure weighed in excess of one billion pounds, but the load can only be carried if it is relatively static

once a chunk of the building is in downward motion, the force exerted becomes greater than the tensile strength of the room temperature steel in the lower levels, and it snaps and shears

20 posted on 09/14/2001 1:48:44 AM PDT by AntiScumbag
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