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National ID? No. No. No. No. No.

Not now. Not later. Not never.

Nyet, nein, non.

Am I making myself clear? Did I mention the guns?

Dear Congress,

Let the evil bastards who perpetrated this act suffer the consequences. Not the liberty of Americans.

"Your papers, citizen?" Sorry, don't think so.

And I'm sure that these national ID cards will NEVER be abused by government and they'll NEVER be used to TRACK citizens, but above all they'll NEVER be counterfeited like driver's licenses and social security cards.

Right.

With the advent of the Digital Angel, they will simply scan your chip at every street corner without your knowledge. No need for an ID card.

Let the evil bastards who perpetrated this act suffer the consequences. Not the liberty of Americans.

Exactly. First it's the ID card and then we will have to submit DNA samples.

Nyet. No. Non.

DA is DOA, does not workie.

House Democratic Leader Dick Gephardt told Fox News, “What kind of identity cards would we make citizens and others carry?

Don't even think about it you little Richard.

People will soon be easy to identify with or without cards.
We're tagged by our faces, fingers, and DNA.
Libertarian strategists need to keep their eyes on the technology trends
in choosing their battles.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

There's only two things that the Congress does gleefully: spend more tax dollars and further infringe the Bill of Rights. Just what the hell good is this national identity card going to do to lessen the peril of terrorism? Better a National CCW reciprocity law, or, indeed, a National Right to Carry Act.

Security through Freedom! (a call for ideas)

My national ID card would be the .45 I have strapped to my hip.....

NeverGore

The terrorists bomb us so WE lose our rights???

I like the way he says "Make". What was it La Pierre (sic) of the NRA said about clinton? Seems they all need a certain amount of violence to further their agenda.

Sorry. Lost mine. My wife washed it. My dog ate it. I did not get one. Didn't know you had to have one. I am too old for one. I am too young for one.

Just practicing my answers.

What a surprize. During times of crisis the worst invasions of liberty occur. No way, congresscritter, No way. Did I mention the guns?

Boonie Rat

MACV SOCOM, PhuBai/Hue '65-'66

The terrorists bomb us so WE lose our rights???

I'm not a conspiracy minded kinda guy, but not even a day had passed after the events in NY and DC, before the press was loading the airwaves with polls and talking heads asking "aren't you willing to sacrifice a few of your rights, if it means you'll be safer from terrorism?"

I remain fearful.

I'd remind all who read this that it was one of histories most notorious socialist tyrants, Adolph Hitler, who correctly declared

"What great luck for rulers that people do not think." </font size=5>

Yes, 9-11-01 was a terrible event and we must find and punish those responsible. And, sadly, there WILL be others.

But we must not punish ourselves and those who come after us by killing the idea that was America and for which idea so many have already paid the ultimate price. Should THAT happen, America the PLACE will no longer be worth saving. What’s to save?

This is NOT a new concept:

"Gentlemen may cry, 'peace, peace'--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! Is life so precious, or peace so dear, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!" -- Patrick Henry to the Virginia Convention on March 23, 1775.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, Pennsylvania Assembly, Nov. 11, 1755

Let's work the problem, people -- starting with thinking it all the way through.

>>>Just what the hell good is this national identity card going to do to lessen the peril of terrorism? <<<

In a word, nothing.

This legislation, and a host of others like it is proposed almost every congressional session; and it usually dies before it's even voted out of subcommittee.

If nothing else, our liberal/socialist foes are prepared. They have it all *ready*set*to*go!* in case the opportunity arises. They know the sheople have short memories. Within a couple of weeks of TWA800 they had their "anti-terrorism" bill passed...you see how well it worked? All it accomplished was further eroding our liberties.

Two weeks ago was another lifetime, a different America. They've got the advantage of public consensus now; even the most of the 'public' is clueless.

It's not a conspiracy because they have been wanting to do this for years. They are just using the disaster to push it, much like anti-gun people.

The mythical "freedom versus security" tradeoff is a false choice.

The WTC attack did not occur because Americans enjoy too much freedom.

It occurred because:

1. U.S. border/immigration policy (or selective enforcement thereof) allowed known terrorists to enter and remain in the country while attending flight school.

2. The terrorists were able to gain access to the cockpits of the hijacked aircraft.

The fact that William Cohen, Dick Gephardt and other statists propound that the only solution to terrorism is to "trade freedom for security" betrays the reality that their true agenda is to curtail freedom.

Do you think the libs, who hate racial profiling, are going to support citizen profiling? And even if citizen profiling was a good idea (and it ain't), what on earth makes anyone believe that government can make it work??? What have they ever done that demonstrates competence??

Exactly. Why require more of us valid citizens? Valid citizens did not commit this awful crime. The libs better support shoring up our borders and the U.S. intelligence and immigration entry and tracking systems for crying out loud. This situation is akin to the gun situation, isn't it? The libs want all gun owners to be licensed. Yeah, like the criminals will pay for licenses for the guns they steal or buy in the black market before they commit their crimes... The result would be that the libs will get more money from law-abiding gun owners -- the only ones who would abide by such a licensing law! Pwerhaps that is really all that libs care about, taking more of our money... I won't pay a dime for another license period, especially not a stupid national ID.

"Let the evil bastards who perpetrated this act suffer the consequences. Not the liberty of Americans."

So obvious, so true, so right.

I laugh each time I read one of these threads. You folks KNOW its coming. Gephardt said it is something that will be taken up quickly. It'll get passed just as quickly. We're at "WAR", remember? (An undeclared "war", but let's not let semantics get in the way).

Get used to it. Your civil liberties are toast. You might as well learn to live with it because the Empire is a done deal.

Who said it, Osama blows up the WTC and you lose your rights? Now you're catching on.

Consider this, if this little undeclared "war" continues for, oh say, 15 years (we are being prepared for that aren't we? Or am I missing something from what all those talking heads are saying?), an entire generation will grow up with National ID cards and Federal Agents demanding "Your Papers Please". They'll never know that it was any other way.

If I wanted to invade a country, all I would need is 20 years' occupation and unfettered access to the minds of the youth of whatever conquered land and victory would be complete. We're going to give it to them.

Well, I am compelled to post something that I've seen since posted by the other drunkards since I started frequenting this little pub ...

If you don't have anything to hide, if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear ...

Should we be surprised at Congress contemplating the enactment of a nice little 'mark of the beast', when we've so willingly given up our privacy and other civil liberties, all in the name of fighting the War on Drugs?

I am filled with a tremendous volcano of emotions ... from a big, fat I TOLD YOU SO ... to orgasmic enjoyment of all the writhing on this thread ... to extreme sadness and grief for the death of the Bill of Rights.

NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No National ID cards. No matter what! Require Nonresident Aliens to carry passports and valid visas on pain of instant deportation (after a good grilling shows them innocent of any other wrongdoing), Require Resident Aliens to carry passports and greed cards on pain of instant deportation (after a good grilling shows them innocent of any wrongdoing), but NO NO NO to any ID requirement for American citizens. Naturalized citizens might be well advised to carry evidence of their status, to avoid being checked because of their accent or whatever, but NO NO NO American citizen should ever be subject to an ID check unless their behavior constitutes probable cause of a crime!!!!!

Is this for real? Does the US government really consider making it mandatory to carry a national smart card ID with you? And the card would include your finger prints and travel records? Heck, I live Scandinavia, the home of the welfare state, and such a thing would never be accepted here.

Hey, I think you and I are the only ones who get it.

Folks, its all over but the cryin'. If you're not out on the Green already, then you might as well save your carpal tunnels and join one of those "We Love GWB" threads. They're much more soothing on the mind.

Why don't they just tattoo our arms?

No National ID cards. No matter what! Require Nonresident Aliens to carry passports and valid visas on pain of instant deportation (after a good grilling shows them innocent of any other wrongdoing), Require Resident Aliens to carry passports and greed cards on pain of instant deportation (after a good grilling shows them innocent of any wrongdoing), but NO NO NO to any ID requirement for American citizens. Naturalized citizens might be well advised to carry evidence of their status, to avoid being checked because of their accent or whatever, but NO NO NO American citizen should ever be subject to an ID check unless their behavior constitutes probable cause of a crime!!!!!

But how would you tell citizens from legal or illegal immigrants without demanding ID from everyone?

"No officer, I don't have to show you ID. I'm a citizen. Honest."

i reccomend a chip placed under the skin that has an auto-terminate sequence on it. then they could not only track us, but also kill us at random.

First the ID card, then, to prevent it's being counterfeit, they will move to microchips under the skin.

And they'll probably offer you a choice, "would you like that implanted under the skin of your right hand, or your forehead?"

U.S. border/immigration policy (or selective enforcement thereof) allowed known terrorists to enter and remain in the country

After all it was important to get Bill Clinton re-elected in 1996! (/sarcasm)

NO congresscritters you will NOT issue me or anyone in my family 'identity cards'. You have screwed up the most important function of the Fed. government which is national security. Why should I or would I trust you with our 'identity'?

I would like to start naming names of the people responsible for the terrorists who were allowed to enter this country. The top awards go to:

Bill Clinton
Hillary Clinton
Madeline Albright
Janet Reno
Sandy Berger
Bill Richardson
Terry McAuliffe

Please add any that I have forgotten since the list is so long.

i am all about the forhead. i would want something cool written on it. maybe 666?

You flush the non-citezens from this country immediately, and you do not let THEM back in until we have a way to track THEM.

No Deals Dick.

Calling Rogers, Stabenow, and Levin NOW.

In response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Congress is considering requiring all citizens and non-citizens to carry identity cards.

Read the book of Revelation.

On second thought, maybe the national ID thing is in the same category as the "Drug Free" and "Gun Free" Zone signs you see around schools.....a desperate attempt to LOOK like they're doing something about the problem when it's really much ado about nothing.

The terrorists were in the US, getting flying lessons, FOR YEARS.

Argenbright's AHL was cited multiple times FOR YEARS for security violations. (AHL does security for Logan, Newark, Dulles.) And amazingly, the terrorists choose the airports that are "secured" by this company.

How did they know to target Logan, Newark and Dulles? [Hint: another airport and nuclear facility security company - Wackenhut - is populated with former intelligence officers.]

On second thought, maybe the national ID thing is in the same category as the "Drug Free" and "Gun Free" Zone signs you see around schools.....a desperate attempt to LOOK like they're doing something about the problem when it's really much ado about nothing.

It will be exactly like drug free schools (where they suspend you for Advil) and gun free schools (where they suspend you for fingernail clippers).

That's what scares me.

Oh, it will be okay, because they will give us white candles to burn if we will submit. FREE. ALL the candles we want. Then we can all FEEL better about our SAFETY whilst singing songs and quilting quilts. I fear that the young fool who called Rush today is right, soon we will be declaring Peace on bin laden. Hush little Americans don't say a word, Big Daddy's gonna buy you a mockingbird...

Why you'd look at them, listen to them, check out their behaviour and Profile them to see if they needed to be checked out.

House Democratic Leader Dick Gephardt told Fox News, “What kind of identity cards would we make citizens and others carry? Would they carry more information?” Gephardt acknowledged that Americans, in the past, rejected ideas such as a national identification card as a possible infringement on civil liberties. But he indicated that last week’s terror attacks had changed the nature of the debate. Congress, he said, would need to quickly debate measures such as a national ID card.

We can always count on Congress to instill more fear in this country than mideastern terrorists. way to go, O little home-grown terrorist-loving politicians- screw your country with lax and corrupt immigration laws and loopholes, then aid and abet terrorists by funding them and coddling them, slashing defense, and curbing the investigative powers of the CIA, and then set everything up for a massive terrorist hit. And then, when you get it, try to impose the national ID in order to finish the task of destroying the 'states' and to subject their citizens to federal control, to carry a national ID even more intrusive and abusive than the SACRED COW social security number, which has long served to promote dependency on the Godlike Federal Sow and which has permitted tracking of almost everything we do as it is.

Way to go, Dick and friends- the true enemies of this country have always been internal. Make OUR people submit? That's your answer? Too afraid to offend FOREIGNERS, but happy to make CITIZENS kneel. Too afraid to offend immigrants and visitors by checking into THEIR backgrounds, but ready to make AMERICANS show OUR papers. Too cowardly to deal with terrorists when the chance presents itself, but more than willing to harass American citizens. I knew we could count on your ilk, Dick, to exploit the situation and to do the terrorist's dirty deeds.

I'm not afraid of some foreigner with a bomb or with nerve gas or with biological or even nuclear weapons- I'd sooner face death at their hands than be further enslaved and harnessed by my own government. My greatest fear was never terrorism, or 'the Russians' , or being nuked, or even being murdered. My greatest fear was realized before I was even born, when my predecessors sold their liberty to the devil - and mine- for illusionary security and subjected us all to being numbered like criminals. And now a nightmare I never considered rises again after having been killed- not just to number us but to require each of us to justify our existance to the authority of a corrupted state, to encapsulate our past and activities on their Book, to be branded by my own people like livestock. What greater enemy do we have but the one that takes our freedom? A terrorist may take our lives, but even a terrorist cannot take our freedom.

Cowards. Dick, you and all your kind may as well make us wear a patch, a tattoo, like the WW2 yellow star of David, for the end result will eventually be the same. Such things are for identifying property to be bought and sold, not for fellow citizens.