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Immigration Reform: What must be done in the aftermath, and immigration status of 9/11 hijackers
The Federation for American Immigration Reform ^ | Sept '01 | The Federation for American Immigration Reform

Posted on 10/13/2001 3:26:20 PM PDT by winna

Immigration Control: A Handbook of Recommendations

What Must Be Done in the Aftermath of the New Super-Terrorism

September 20, 2001

Federation for American Immigration Reform
1666 Connecticut Avenue, Suite 400
Washington, D.C. 20009
(202) 328-7004 www.fairus.org


Immigration Reforms Needed to Prevent
Terrorism in the United States

The acts of war that were perpetrated against the United States on September 11th, carried out by aliens who lived, worked and attended schools in the United States, has made significant reforms to our immigration policies a national security imperative. In light of the terrible events of last week, it is extremely important that the United States adopt measures to ensure that we have a better idea who we admit to this country, that people abide by the terms of their admission, and that we establish mechanisms for monitoring those who have been admitted.

FAIR has produced a series of recommendations that, if implemented, will make it more difficult for terrorists to enter the United States in the first place, and more difficult for them to operate unlawfully within our borders.

Restore Authority of Consular Officers as the First Line of Defense

Specific RecommendationsBackground
The responsibility of U.S. consular officers to regulate the travel of foreigners to the United States is nearly as old as our country. Our immigration law, currently based on the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, provides the grounds for consular officers to decide whom should or should not be admitted as immigrants or visitors. They have the responsibility for protecting the country from persons who are unwanted or who may do harm. However, the authority of the consular officers has been undermined by several recent changes in the law.

Immigration visas, which earn a foreigner permanent residence (a “green card”) are issued by consular officers only after a rigorous screening process that includes medical and background investigations. The only exception was provided for persons who were in lawful nonimmigrant status in the United States (students or temporary workers, for example) who had become sponsored for an immigrant visa (by a spouse or employer, for example). They are permitted to change status to permanent resident without leaving the country if they are not found ineligible by the INS.

In 1994, Congress enacted a provision - INA Sec. 245(i) - that amended the law to also permit adjustment to permanent residence for illegal aliens if they had found a sponsor and paid a penalty fee. As enacted by Congress, Sec. 245(i) expired September 30, 1997. However, in 2000, at the end of the Clinton Administration, Congress revived it for a four-month period Administration. And the Bush Administration has proposed a further renewal of the exemption from consular screening

. The Sec. 245(i) loophole creates the possibility for persons to illegally enter the United States or to overstay their visas with impunity and to gain permanent status if they have found an employer or spouse to petition for their residence status. It, therefore, is a form of amnesty for immigration lawbreakers, and, as such, encourages others to break the law in the expectation of being similarly rewarded. By not having to apply to the overseas consular officers for immigrant visas, the aliens escape both the more rigorous screening process that is part of the normal immigration process, and the provision adopted in 1996 that requires a penalty period before an illegal alien may return to the United States for permanent residence.

To protect the American people from foreign terrorists, the United States cannot afford to have a dual standard of screening aliens who are given the right to permanent residence in our country, especially the Section 245(i) provision that uses a more lax screening process for persons who have already violated the U.S. immigration law.

Improve Information Sharing on Aliens in the United States

Specific RecommendationsBackground
The INS, FBI and State Department all need the capacity to identify aliens in the United States who are in violation of their visa status, who have broken U.S. laws or are under investigation for criminal activity, including terrorism.

At present INS and State Department computerized database systems are incompatible, making information sharing difficult and cumbersome. The INS is unable to access background check information developed overseas, the State Department is unable to check information on any criminal or subversive activity that a visa applicant may have committed during an earlier stay in the United States, and the FBI is unable to determine the immigration status of aliens in the United States who become investigation suspects.

Currently the INS takes fingerprints of aliens who apply for permanent residence or for naturalization or other benefits and sends them electronically to the FBI to determine whether they have any criminal record. The FBI does not retain those fingerprints, because the FBI is not authorized to do so by the INS. As those fingerprints may be vital to establishing the identity of aliens involved in terrorist attacks, whether as victims or perpetrators, or for other investigative reasons, the INS should change its policy and authorize FBI retention of the fingerprints.

Maintain a Computerized Database on Foreign Students

Specific RecommendationsBackground
Although the government has had a system capable of monitoring foreign students since 1997, its implementation repeatedly has been delayed. It is now scheduled for 2005, approximately 8 years past its original implementations date.

In April 1996, a task force chaired by the director of the FBI issued a report, Controls Governing Foreign Students and Schools That Admit Them. The report adopted as its fundamental “guiding principle” the concept that Americans need confidence in their government's capacity to protect them from terrorists and criminal aliens. The report notes a “growing degree of public concern” about “instances where terrorists and criminal aliens have been linked to student visas.”

The requirement to establish a database of foreigners here on F (student), M (vocational trainee), or J (exchange visitor) visas was adopted as Sec. 641 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA). The act specified that the system should be operational within 18 months of enactment.

In 1997 INS established a pilot project (the Coordinated Interagency Partnership Regulating International Students - CIPRIS) at 21 schools in the southeast U.S. to study how the system would work. Schools have adamantly opposed the requirement in the law that they would collect the user fee ($95) from the student for forwarding to the INS.

In 2000, an amendment was adopted to relieve the schools of the fee collection requirement. Currently INS has plans to launch a new test of the program in mid-2001 and to have CIPRIS fully implemented by 2005. This database needs to be implemented immediately.

In addition to monitoring their entry and exit, it is important to conduct country of origin background checks on all foreign student visa applications. Such background checks would prevent student visas from being issued to individuals associated with terrorist organizations.

The government needs to be able to detect students who enter the country but never arrive at the school, as was the case with one of the September 11 terrorists. In addition, the information system should identify foreign students who are not in compliance with the terms of their visa, flunked out of school, or graduated. Tracking compliance would enable the INS to seek and remove those who are out of compliance.

Establish an Entry-Exit Database for all Foreign Visitors

Specific RecommendationsBackground
Millions of foreigners enter the United States every year as nonimmigrants for a limited period. Although they are expected to return home at the end of their visit, there is no effective means for detecting those who do not.

Congress in 1996 recognized the need for establishing a database on all foreign visitors that would identify those who had overstayed their visas. The measure (Sec. 110 of IIRAIRA) required establishment of the database within two years of enactment, i.e., in 1998. The database would allow INS to maintain accurate records on the entry and exit of individuals, and enable expeditious apprehension and expulsion of those who stay beyond their visa expiration date.

By 1998, Congress, at the request of business and the tourism interests, delayed implementation by requiring further study of the feasibility of such a system. FAIR criticized the delay: - “Getting rid of this important anti-terrorism provision because of claims that it will be ‘inconvenient’ to foreign visitors puts the American public on a direct path with international terrorists.”

In June 2000,Congress enacted a compromise (PL 106-215) that maintained Sec. 110 but extended the timetable for its implementation and restricted comprehensive application to accommodate Canadians and others for whom we have waived visa requirements on the basis of reciprocity. Airports and seaports were given until the end of 2003 to implement the data system. Land borders were given until the end of 2004 to enter the system. The system was to become fully operational by the end of 2005.

Current technology employed in machine-readable passes for frequent travelers and in the new border crossing cards, both with biometric identifiers, should be adopted as a standard for routine entry and exit of the United States, with the electronic information being stored and retrievable as part of the entry-exit database.

This database could also be used to track the current address of all foreign residents. In 1981, Congress set aside the annual reporting of foreign visitors in favor of reporting only in the event of a change of address. The INS has failed to press for compliance with even this watered-down provision. This hampers the ability of the INS to adequately monitor and track the whereabouts of foreign residents, as witnessed in the recent terrorist events.

Establish Electronic Verification of Identity Documents for Employment

Specific RecommendationsBackground
In 1986 Congress enacted the Immigration Reform and Control Act making it illegal for employers to hire aliens illegally in the country. A system of documentary requirements was established to implement the system. Because the documents were not tied to a database or electronically verifiable, a cottage industry rapidly sprouted to manufacture fake identity documents to meet the recording requirements (INS form I-9).

In 1996, following the recommendations of the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, Congress recognized the need to provide a means for employers to verify the authenticity of documents to implement the prohibition on hiring illegal aliens and instructed the INS to conduct a pilot project to test the feasibility of a verification system. Three pilot projects were mandated and they have now been tested and evaluated.

Identity verification is nothing new. All state and local government agencies that administer federal government welfare programs have been required for years to check with federal databases to prevent illegal aliens from receiving benefits.

The INS, however, has not reported to Congress on the evaluation, and the opposition of the advocates of loose controls against illegal immigration, including employers of low-wage workers, and ethnic advocacy groups, may be expected to oppose establishment of a mandatory national system of document verification.

Control Issuance of Driver’s Licenses for Foreign Visitors

Specific RecommendationsBackground
The responsibility for issuance of driver’s licenses is currently a responsibility of the states, with the exception of U.S. Government issued licenses for operation of U.S.G. vehicles. The result is a widely varying set of standards for issuance of driver’s licenses to aliens. It is appropriate that immigrants (LPRs, or “green card” holders) to be issued licenses by the jurisdiction in which they have established residence. However, provisions governing the conditions under which visitors and other limited-stay aliens receive driver’s licenses may be regulated by the federal government.

The processes by which the September 11 terrorists obtained driver’s licenses in Virginia and Florida show that it would be a valuable counter-terrorism measure to restrict the issuance of driver’s licenses to non-LPRs to the federal government. By doing so, the government would be able to screen applicants against lists of known foreign terrorists and persons suspected of connections to foreign terrorist organizations. In addition, the information in the federal driver’s license database would be a valuable tool in assisting investigations, if a non-LPR should subsequently be identified as a suspect.

A collateral benefit of ending the varying state standards for issuance of driver’s licenses to non-LPR aliens would be to remove the contentious issue of issuance of licenses to illegal aliens. A precedent for the proposal to establish a federally-issued license for non-LPR aliens is the current system in which the U.S. Department of State has taken responsibility for the issuance of license plates to foreign diplomatic and consular personnel assigned to the United States.

To avoid possibly impeding international tourism, the DOT should arrange to handle advance issuance of limited-duration (e.g. for one month, but renewable) licenses for travelers to the United States through travel agencies. These would be issued like international driver’s licenses upon evidence that the visitor was licensed to drive in the traveler’s home country, presented evidence of a valid passport, and evidence of insurance.

Restore Integrity to the State Driver’s License as an Identity Document

Specific RecommendationsBackground
In 1996 Congress enacted legislation (Sec. 656(b) of IIRAIRA) designed to establish security procedures for state-issued driver’s licenses. The legislation encouraged states to incorporate features to make the licenses and identity cards more difficult to counterfeit and to incorporate Social Security numbers into the license or to verify the number with the Social Security Administration and then file it with the application. Regulations to implement the system were issued by the Secretary of Transportation in 1997, and the federal government was to no longer recognize as valid ID documents state driver’s licenses from states that were not in compliance as of October 1, 2000.

In 1999, the Sec. 656 requirement was repealed by H.R. 2084 signed by President Clinton on October 9, 1999 (Pub. L. No. 106-69). The campaign that led to this repeal was fueled by civil liberties, alien advocacy, and libertarian groups that argued that the ID verification system would be an infringement on civil liberties and would lead to a national identity database.

FAIR criticized this development, saying, “There is no rational reason why states cannot and should not be required to develop secure drivers’ licenses that both deter fraud and protect privacy.”

Several of the terrorists involved in the September 11 attacks had Florida driver’s licenses despite being illegally in the country after their entry permits had expired.

Establish Greater Cooperation Between Local and Federal agencies in Immigration Law Enforcement

Specific RecommendationsBackground
The size of the illegal alien problem in the United States has grown to such immense proportions, with estimates of the population at from six to 12 million, that the INS is unable to adequately enforce the immigration law in the interior of the country with its present resources. Local police forces could assist in regaining control over our nation’s sovereignty against illegal entrants and visa violators.

Local police currently may detain an illegal alien for immigration status violation only if their local laws give them that authority. Even if local law enforcement agencies detain persons whom they believe to be illegal aliens, the INS often advises them to release the persons because they do not have the resources to take them into custody.

In 1996 Congress enacted the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRAIRA) which contained a provision (Sec. 133) authorizing the INS to enter into agreements with local law enforcement agencies to provide training in immigration law enforcement. After training the local police would gain authority to detain aliens for being in illegal immigration status and then turn them over to the INS for removal from the country. The Department of Justice has failed to take action to inform local police jurisdictions about, or encourage to take advantage of, this provision. The greater leverage against the millions of illegal aliens

Restore Asylum Protection to Its Original Intent

Specific recommendations:Background
Asylum status is similar to refugee status except that it is granted to aliens who are already in the United States. Because of that difference, asylum is regularly claimed as a protection against deportation by persons who are illegally in the country.

Asylum uses the same definition as for a refugee: “a person who is unable or unwilling to return to, and is unable or unwilling to avail himself or herself of the protection of, that country because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.” In immigration and federal court decisions over recent years, the definition has been interpreted increasingly broadly to apply to persons subject to societal pressures, such as some societies condoning spousal or child abuse or ostracism for homosexuality.

In addition, a provision enacted in 1996 specifically provided political persecution status to persons (Chinese) who claimed that they would be subjected to forced family planning practices if they were returned home. It is extremely difficult to judge the validity of any of these claims, and fabricated and questionable asylum claimants have succeeded in gaining permanent U.S. residence.

Originally, asylum status was created in 1980 to cover the cases of aliens already in the United States legally who faced possible persecution because of a change of government in their country if they were forced to return home at the end of their authorized stay in our country.

By opening up asylum status to persons illegally in the country, the process becomes a means for persons to enter the country illegally and then try to adjust their status to permanent resident. Some persons identified as involved in international terrorist activities in the United States have used the asylum policy as a means to avoid deportation from the United States or from Canada.

Maintain the Ability of Intelligence Services to Protect their Sources of Information in Immigration Proceedings

Specific RecommendationBackground
Aliens in removal proceedings because they have violated U.S. criminal laws or their visa status are brought before immigration judges, and in those hearings the law provides that classified information gathered by intelligence services may be presented to the judge in confidence.

Civil libertarians, however, have launched a campaign trying to specify that any information used in a removal proceeding must be presented to the defendant to allow rebuttal. Intelligence services say that the adoption of that provision would effectively eliminate their furnishing of classified information for removal proceedings, because the disclosure of the information to the alien would jeopardize the source of the information.

The terrorist attacks against the United States reveal the need for intelligence agencies to develop much more information on the activities of international terrorist organizations, which will be seriously compromised if they are not able to assure informants that the confidentiality of their information will be protected.

Reestablish Meaningful Deterrence Against Illegal Immigration

Specific RecommendationsBackground
The ability of the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) to deny entry to undocumented aliens and to locate and remove aliens who have violated their visa status or sneaked into the country has been seriously eroded by the sheer volume of aliens residing here illegally. Both the breakdown of the capability of the INS to enforce our immigration laws and the large and growing communities of illegal aliens result in an environment in which international terrorists can easily avoid detection.

Sec. 101 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRAIRA) mandated a process of strengthening the personnel resources of the U.S. Border Patrol to bring it to 10,000 officers by 2001. That has not been achieved in part because Congress withheld some of the necessary funding and in part because the INS has had to cope with a high rate of attrition due to higher pay and a more supportive environment elsewhere.

Over the last several years, INS efforts to stem the flood of illegal aliens entering across the Mexican border has led the agency to pull officers away from the Canadian border and interior enforcement operations. As a result, the Canadian border has grown increasingly penetrable by illegal entrants.

The breakdown in the INS’s efforts to find and remove illegal aliens who managed to sneak past the Border Patrol or who violate their visa status has further encouraged the massive wave of illegal immigration. The flood will not abate as long as jobs are readily obtainable by illegal workers and as long as there is no meaningful prospect of enforcement by the INS.

FAIR 9/01


 


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Also from the FAIR website: The immigration status of the Sept. 11 terrorists:

The Pentagon Plane (AA Flight 77, Dulles to Los Angeles)

  1. Khalid Al-Midhar
    • Obtained visa in Saudi Arabia.
    • Arrived U.S. Jan. 2000 on B-2 tourist visa, arrived again July 2001 on B-1 business visa.
    • Put on the Watch List for terrorists after entering U.S. last time.
    • In legal nonimmigrant status at the time of the attack.
    • Had a Virginia driver’s license.
  2. Nawaf Al-Hamzi
    • Obtained visa in Saudi Arabia.
    • Arrived U.S. Jan. 2000.
    • In illegal visa overstay status at the time of the attack.
    • Had a Florida driver’s license .
    • Had a Virginia driver’s license.
  3. Salem Al-Hamzi
    • Identity in doubt.
    • Obtained visa in Saudi Arabia.
    • Arrived U.S. June 2001.
    • In legal nonimmigrant status at the time of the attack.
    • Had a Virginia driver’s license.
  4. Majed Moqed
    • Identity in doubt.
    • Entered on nonimmigrant visa after May 2001.
    • In legal nonimmigrant status at the time of the attack.
    • Had a Virginia driver’s license.
  5. Hani Hasan Hanjour (26) - Saudi Arabian
    • Obtained visa in Saudi Arabia.
    • Admitted in Nov. 2000 on F-1 visa to study English at Holy Names College (Oakland CA). Never showed up. In illegal status because he was not enrolled, but visa may not have expired.
    • Had been in U.S. earlier in 1996, when he received flight training in Arizona.
    • Had a Virginia driver’s license.
The WTC North Tower Plane (AA Flight 11, Boston to Los Angeles)
  1. Satam Al-Suami (25)
    • Unclear how entered U.S.
  2. Waleed Al-Shehri (21) - Saudi Arabian
    • Licensed pilot; entered on nonimmigrant visa, possible M-1 visa.
    • Arrived June 2000.
    • In illegal nonimmigrant status (visa overstay) at time of the attack.
    • Had a Florida driver’s license.
  3. Wael Al-Shehri (25) - Saudi Arabian
    • Unclear how entered U.S.
    • Licensed pilot; possible M-1 visa.
    • Had a Florida ID card.
  4. Mohamed Atta
    • Obtained visa in Berlin Germany, May 2000.
    • Licensed pilot.
    • Arrested in Florida for driving without license, and failed to show up for court date.
    • Subsequently obtained Florida driver’s license.
    • Overstayed temporary entry permit, but was able to subsequently reenter U.S. on the same visa.
    • In legal nonimmigrant status at the time of the attack.
    • Put on the Watch List for Terrorists after entered U.S. last time.
  5. Abdulaziz Al-Omari
    • Identity in doubt.
    • Entered the U.S. in or after May 2001.
    • Entered on nonimmigrant visa and in legal nonimmigrant status at the time of the attack.
    • Had a Florida driver’s license.
    • Had a Virginia driver’s license.
The WTC South Tower Plane (UA Flight 175, Boston to Los Angeles)
  1. Marwan Al-Shehhi
    • Licensed pilot; possible M-1 visa.
    • Overstayed temporary entry permit, but was able to subsequently reenter U.S. on the same visa.
    • Entered the U.S. in or after May 2001.
    • In legal nonimmigrant status at the time of the attack.
    • Had a Florida driver’s license.
  2. Fayez Ahmed Al-Shehri - Saudi Arabian.
    • Unclear how entered U.S.
  3. Ahmed Al-Ghamdi
    • Entered on F-1 student visa.
    • In illegal visa overstay status at the time of the attack.
    • Had a Florida ID card.
    • Had a Virginia driver’s license
  4. Hamza Saleh Al-Ghamdi (20) - Saudi Arabian
    • Unclear how entered U.S.
    • Had a Florida driver’s license.
  5. Mohald Al-Shehri
    • Unclear how entered U.S.
    • Identity in doubt.
The Pennsylvania Plane (UA Flight 93, Newark to San Francisco)
  1. Saeed Al-Ghamdi
    • Unclear how entered U.S.
    • Identity in doubt.
    • Probable pilot; possible M-1 visa.
    • Had a Florida ID card.
  2. Ahmed Ibrahim A. Al-Haznawi
    • Obtained visa in Saudi Arabia.
    • Entered the U.S. in or after May 2001.
    • In legal nonimmigrant status at the time of the attack.
    • Had a Florida driver’s license.
  3. Ahmed Abdullah Al-Nami (23) - Saudi Arabian
    • Obtained visa in Saudi Arabia.
    • Entered the U.S. in or after May 2001.
    • In legal nonimmigrant status at the time of the attack.
    • Had a Florida ID card.
  4. Ziad Samir Jarrah
    • Entered on nonimmigrant visa in July 2000.
    • In legal nonimmigrant status at the time of the attack.
    • Had a Florida driver’s license.

1 posted on 10/13/2001 3:26:21 PM PDT by winna
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To: winna
Let's keep it simple. They MUST meet the requirements

- a real sponsor, not a BS one to get in; if they ever come in illegally, they do not get to be a citizen as they are a criminal - automatically disqualification (unless H. Clinton gets in.) If they become a citizen they must be able to read and write ENGLISH. (When crashing into my car because they do not have a license, I'd like to understand what they are saying.)And at least when they vote illegally in my country because of Drive up Voter registratation, they will know what they voted for.

If they have an operation or any other emergency bill, they pay for it not the taxpayer. If they slide under the gate to get in and have a baby, the brat AINT a US citizen. They do not qualify for welfare, ever. Do not come here and ask for my job and allege discrimination. If you have a physical, mental or other malady, they do not qualify.

Immigration IS NOT GOOD for America as the liberals say. Read Samuel Gompers, an immigrant. it is time for immigrants to become Americans, not for us to bend over for their "culture". If thay had a culture, the current wave of immigrants would have a trade, education or other required skill demanded of our ancestors.

My family includes Jewish, Irish, Italian, American Indian (Caucasians - Jamon & Ainu were the "Native" Americans) German, Vietnamese, Russian etc. Sorry, but the Judeo Christian, Western European "culture" built the country. Let's assimilate what we have; and restrict immigration to the original nationalities that created a great country that is now being trashed by the politicians and bin Ladens.

2 posted on 10/13/2001 3:55:34 PM PDT by Henchman
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To: winna
Please God, give our government the courage and the will power to keep these evil people out of our country. Most of us have never seen such evil human beings in all of our lives. The destroyers have come.
3 posted on 10/13/2001 3:56:06 PM PDT by tessalu
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To: tessalu
We need to get all traitors out of the United States as swiftly as we can. If Muslims are supporting terrorists privately, in mosques, or elsewhere, they need to go fast. It should be a crime to recruit terrorists in the USA or teach it on our soil.
4 posted on 10/13/2001 3:59:45 PM PDT by tessalu
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To: tessalu; dennisw; FITZ; Franklin1776; madrussian; boris
ping
5 posted on 10/13/2001 4:01:41 PM PDT by sarcasm
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To: tessalu
Get rid of political correctness, multi-culturalism, affirmative action and other anti-Western, anti-American and anti-white pogroms in America. That's what must be done. If my statement offends somebody, well, then I refer all those somebodies to Sept. 11, 2001 and the events in NYC.
6 posted on 10/13/2001 4:03:55 PM PDT by StormEye
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To: winna
keep it simple. Bar Muslims.

Mrs VS

7 posted on 10/13/2001 4:12:10 PM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: sarcasm
It's definitely time to revamp the INS completely. We can take some immigrants, but they need to be only from compatible cultures, need to be self-sufficient with auto-insurance if they drive and medical insurance for their own health care needs, and watched closely until they earn citizenship.
8 posted on 10/13/2001 4:15:05 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: winna
Great post!

A friend and I were talking just last night about the absolute necessity for entry-exit accountability for everyone who visits the US. It's astounding that we don't have that apparatus in place.

9 posted on 10/13/2001 4:29:52 PM PDT by Clinton's a liar
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To: winna
Nobody likes uncontrolled immigration more than I do but the people at FAIR are idiots - Stein, in particular. When you back them against the wall, their primary approach is to tattoo every American with a serial number. No serial number? You must be illegal. This is an ass-backwards and Nazi approach.

The proper approach is to not allow illegals to get here in the first place. I don't care what regulations are imposed on immigrants, but don't come after ME with your tattoo needles.

FAIR should be ignored until they read and understand the Constitution.

10 posted on 10/13/2001 4:32:02 PM PDT by agitator
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To: agitator
Point taken. There's always a flip-side and there are always consequences. I had never heard of FAIR before today and their proposals sound plausible, but you know more about them than I do and I don't doubt what you say is true.

Personally I'd like to see all aliens from middle eastern countries deported until we can get INS straightened out. Easier said than done though. There doesn't appear to be a simple solution to this mess.

11 posted on 10/13/2001 4:44:47 PM PDT by winna
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To: agitator
Sorry to disagre with you, but 1) It is near impossible to keep illegals out short of having a moat loaded with crocodiles and then people could sneak in in airplanes just like they bring in loads of drugs. 2) Many illegals originally entered legally and have overstayed their visas or are otherwise in violation of their status. How do you intend to identify those people?

Many members of FAIR are ex immigration officers who have first hand experience combatting this problem with under-enforced laws. If the present laws were enforced and some loopholes closed you would be surprised at the result
No one is suggesting tattoos except maybe some agitators....
I guarantee I have read and have a fair understanding of the Constitution, so what about my rights protecting me from these illegals? As far a identification, the only one not needing a national id such as a passport is someone that never leaves the US or goes to a country that does not require a visa and then you usually must have proof of US citizenship except for short trips to Mexico or Canada....
In case you don't know it you already have a serial number, its your social security number.....
12 posted on 10/13/2001 4:55:26 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: agitator
Nobody likes uncontrolled immigration more than I do but the people at FAIR are idiots - Stein, in particular. When you back them against the wall, their primary approach is to tattoo every American with a serial number. No serial number? You must be illegal. This is an ass-backwards and Nazi approach.

I believe you are cutting FAIR too little slack. They have been supporting constitutional reforms for years. However, another thread claims that 300,000 deportations are not being implemented because the people just are hard to find. You have to admit that there is a problem with immigration, (something Bush has not wanted to get involved with), then you have to do something.

BTW, some actions can be taken that do not put is back in Germany in 1943, and sunset clauses can be used if the liberties taken away are too severe. What part of we are in a war don't you understand?

13 posted on 10/13/2001 4:59:12 PM PDT by KC_for_Freedom
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To: winna
There are an estimated 11 to 15 million foreign nationals (criminals) illegally in this country. This poses a serious threat to our National Security. We the people of the United States of America demand: 1. That President Bush and Congress publicly state that any and all foreign nationals (criminals) illegally in this country pose a national security threat; 2. That no country be given foreign aid unless its government renounces illegal immigration and recalls all of its citizens who have entered the United States of America illegally; 3. That all foreign nationals (criminals) illegally in this country be arrested and deported; 4. That asset forfeiture laws be implemented against illegal immigrants and those who hire, transport, and / or harbor them; 5. That any organization that advocates the overthrow of the United States of America, including MEChA and all its variations, be removed from our schools, colleges and universities; that any government employee who sponsors these programs be terminated; 6. That Congress pass federal laws mandating that all government employees must enforce immigration laws or be terminated, and receive a mandatory 1-year prison sentence for each violation of these laws; 7. That all foreign nationals who remain in the United States of America must be registered and pass a thorough background check; 8. That Americans citizens receive preferential admission to our colleges and universities over foreign nationals; 9. That a 10-year moratorium be placed on immigration so that our country and people can heal. The United States of America: United we stand, divided we fall; one nation, one people, one language.
14 posted on 10/13/2001 7:04:56 PM PDT by Frank Vera
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To: rolling_stone
1) It is near impossible to keep illegals out short of having a moat loaded with crocodiles

How about a moat full of toxic waste, a minefield, automatic machineguns, and a free-fire A10/Apache target range the entire length of our southern border? Think that might help?

and then people could sneak in in airplanes just like they bring in loads of drugs.

Smuggling people is nowhere near as easy as cargo.  C'mon...

2) Many illegals originally entered legally and have overstayed their visas or are otherwise in violation of their status. How do you intend to identify those people?

Presuming we've STOPPED the vast majority of the flow into the country first, you tell everybody that might have a visa "problem" that they had better get it straightened out, leave ASAP, or else. Anybody after a certain date caught with a visa "problem" loses everything and makes big rocks into little rocks in the south pacific for long enough to pay for the expenses of processing them outta here. Anybody found with bogus papers gets the same treatment only longer. These people identify eventually themselves. The problem isn't that we don't identify them, the problem is the morons passing out visas to everybody that walks in the door, the politicians who authorized them to do it, and a system that can't track who they gave those visas out to in the first place. If you limit the visas granted to 10% of those now issued, issue THEM an "Alien ID Card", track THEIR asses, and tell them the instant they don't show up to leave on-time an APB goes out with THEIR picture on it - and the next stop is a hell-hole in the south pacific, you'll see a little change in the way things happen around here.

No one is suggesting tattoos except maybe some agitators....

The FAIR response to the problem is requiring ME to carry around, and produce on demand, an "internal passport." Back them up against the wall, and that's what they boil down to. I'm sorry to be the one to have to clue them in on this but there is no, and can be no, authority under our Constitution to allow that.

In case you don't know it you already have a serial number, its your social security number.....

First of all, I don't have an SSN. The SSA thinks that they have a number that applies to me. I haven't used or provided their social security number to anyone in 8 years and have no intention of starting now. There is no law that says anyone has to have one, ask the SSA if you don't believe me. None of my children will ever have an SSN until they're legally competent to decide that for themselves.

15 posted on 10/13/2001 9:19:31 PM PDT by agitator
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To: KC_for_Freedom
BTW, some actions can be taken that do not put is back in Germany in 1943, and sunset clauses can be used if the liberties taken away are too severe.

"Sunset clauses" are just as reliable as "temporary taxes." Get real!

What part of we are in a war don't you understand?

The part about unconstitutional is unconstitutional. The part about fear doesn't mean resorting to East-German police-state control of citizens. The part about how a bunch of panicked, herded, lemmings can't vote away my God-given rights. There's more but that will do for now.

Yeah, we have a problem with immigration. And it ought to stop NOW. The trick is to make illegal or otherwise unauthorized immigration or residency so unattractive that people voluntarily decide not to do it; not start jumping off of cliffs because the sky is falling and "we're all gonna die!" Stop all immigration now, go back and get the immigration computers up to snuff, and let the deportations begin. Leave me the hell alone. I didn't cause this problem and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let a bunch of panic mongerers jam my rights where the sun doesn't shine.

16 posted on 10/13/2001 9:34:14 PM PDT by agitator
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To: Clinton's a liar
A friend and I were talking just last night about the absolute necessity for entry-exit accountability for everyone who visits the US. It's astounding that we don't have that apparatus in place.

The blame for that lies squarely on Spencer Abraham, the former Senator from Michigan (defeated with the help of FAIR) who blocked all serious immigration reform when the chaired the subcommittee on immigration. You'll have to ask Dubya why he appointed this traitor to his cabinet.

17 posted on 10/13/2001 10:02:33 PM PDT by Pelham
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To: winna
Deport all aliens.
18 posted on 10/15/2001 2:28:33 AM PDT by TEXICAN II
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To: agitator
Tattoo & deport all aliens.
19 posted on 10/15/2001 2:30:03 AM PDT by TEXICAN II
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To: rolling_stone
30-years ago I lived and worked in England. I had a work permit and had to register at my local police station. When I moved, I had to register at my new police station. It was not intrusive and I was not upset that they insisted on this. On two occasions they sent someone by to check my work permit and to ensure that my address on my work permit was current.

I don't see why we cannot do the same thing here without people getting all bent out of shape.

However, after seeing the report about 'martyr schools' on CNN last night, I am convinced that we have to do a lot more. I think that until those countries change their attitude and until they clean up their acts, NO IMMIGRANTS from these countries should be allowed to enter the United States. And I mean NOT ONE SINGLE MOSLEM should be allowed in this country until martyr schools are closed and until they teach their people that this is insanity.

I was particularly disgusted with CNN's reporting--acting as if this was just another normal interview. These people are crazy. Their attitude is crazy. Their ideas are crazy. And they are providing health care for the 'martyrs' (murderers!!!) familes! They give them money. They give them education! And CNN just smiles and interviews them. I would spit on them. And until the world realizes that these people are completely insane and do not deserve to be treated as if they are human beings, we are in big trouble.

Those camps and that Arab tv station that promotes these murdering scums as heros should be the first place that should be destroyed.

20 posted on 10/15/2001 2:43:44 AM PDT by IceGirl2
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