How Tolerant is Islam?

Bump.

Neither the reporter nor the "experts" cited know much about the Christian mis-named "Dark Ages". They simply repeat the post-Protestant mythology taught to them as immutable "facts" in the secular lobotomy factories know as "public schools".

There were many beautiful, humane things about the Christian "Dark Ages"--things that far surpass in intellectual, spiritual and aesthetic delight anything that Peaceful Islam or Western "Enlightenment" (not a "dark" age but rather a BLOOD RED one) has ever offered--even at the height of its so-called "Golden Age".

Less than a century following the death of Muhammad the infamous Covenant of Umar had been promulgated to greately restrict the activity of dhimmi (Christians and Jews) in Muslim society. A score of proscriptions made the non-believers pariahs. These proscriptions are still in effect in Saudi Arabia, and in the more reactionary Muslim nations like Afghanistan. There is no Christian religious service permitted in Saudi Arabia, not even in the Embassies of Christian nations. It should be understood in the West that intolerance is the true face of the Wahabbi Islam that the Saudis fund throughout the world.

Heads up.

Heads up.

Thought Islam meant "submission", and Salam meant peace.

Which is it?

Shalom means peace, Islam means forced submission or death if voluntary submission doesn't work.

Mr. Johnson goes on to explain that contrary to the evolving natures of both Christianity and Judaism, Islam has never undergone any update, reformation or enlightenment since its inception in the seventh century. "Islam," he wrote, "remains a religion of the Dark Ages.

This is well said.

"...Mr. Johnson goes on to explain that contrary to the evolving natures of both Christianity and Judaism, Islam has never undergone any update, reformation or enlightenment since its inception in the seventh century. "Islam," he wrote, "remains a religion of the Dark Ages...."

Lent:"...This is well said...."

Only if you think the so-called "Reformation" was a net good.

And I suspect you would not be so eager to embrace the idea of "reformed" Judaism if it shed the "dark age" biblical outlines of a Jewish State--eh?

You make an excellent point. The so-called "Dark Ages" is a myth. These were actually times of vibrant intellectual growth and learning. During these alleged "Dark Ages," monks in Ireland translated the works of ancient Greece and Rome, universities were founded across Europe, the arts exploded with a fervor never before seen, and the artistic and architectural masterpieces known as cathedrals were built from Moscow to Paris to London and Rome.

Far from being an unenlightened period of oppressive anti-intellectualism, the middle ages was a vibrant and vital period of intellectual and artistic achievement.

The experts tell us militant Islamic fundamentalists, or "Islamists," represent a narrow, if murderous, fringe. They number no more than 10, maybe 15, percent of all Muslims.

The 10-15 percent set off the bombs. The other 85-90 percent dance in the streets.

"...These were actually times of vibrant intellectual growth and learning. During these alleged "Dark Ages," monks in Ireland translated the works of ancient Greece and Rome, universities were founded across Europe, the arts exploded with a fervor never before seen, and the artistic and architectural masterpieces known as cathedrals were built from Moscow to Paris to London and Rome....Far from being an unenlightened period of oppressive anti-intellectualism, the middle ages was a vibrant and vital period of intellectual and artistic achievement..."

This is so true. Therefore it is being supressed at all costs by the entire education bureaucracy everywhere in the West--but especially here in "The Land Of The Free". It is absolutely fabbergasting to me that today, anywhere in The Halls of Power, "peaceful Islam" will be given a much more respectful reception than The True Faith. (hee hee).

That sounds about right.

Re: the "dark" ages.

People are not any smarter now, but there is a reason why our government is secular. Bad people and bullies gravitate towards positions of power. If you allow church and state to merge you get bad government combined with bad theology.

evolving natures of both Christianity and Judaism

I'm having trouble understanding what it is from the Dark Ages you want to keep. Is it the theology? Please let me know what it is from the Dark Ages which fascinates you because I think you have misread the author as inidcating a blanket pejorative view of the Dark Ages.

And I suspect you would not be so eager to embrace the idea of "reformed" Judaism if it shed the "dark age" biblical outlines of a Jewish State--eh?

Given that the zionist movement was a 19th century largely secular phenomenon your comments are ill-conceived. However, your comments are premised on a rather knee-jerk reaction to the writer's notion that Christian and Jewish Biblical exegesis and hermeneutics went through an evolvement process. This, I take to mean that such notions as the church and state developed to reflect the truth of the Scriptures through the painful processess of the dark ages, Renaissance and Reformation, enlightenment, etc.

Hence your comments, especially with respect to the Jewish State, have mistakenly shown that you have conflated the progression of Biblical exegesis and hermeneutics, an exegesis more reflective of the truth of the Scriptures, with the pagan-Christian syncretism of Constantine and the resulting papal abuses of power. The latter was characteristic of the Dark Ages.

We do have a rather fundamental disagreement about the nature of progresssince I believe one of the greatest achievements of Roman Catholicism at its height was the harmonization, reconciliation and blending of pagan traditions with the life of Jesus and the acts of his Apostles. It was one of the most splendid, glorious and gorgeous attempts to reach backwards, forwards and inwards ever attempted in human history.

The Church loses its vitality as it continues to fail to confront the bloodless, lifeless heresies that stalk the Protestant "narrow path".

And, more horribly, it renders the Church unable to confront and tame the growing pagan abuses of modern seularism--infanticide, genocide, the worship of power and money and the war between the sexes--to name a few.

"...Given that the zionist movement was a 19th century largely secular phenomenon ...

You want to be careful throwing that little fact around Lent. It leads to impure thoughts; thoughts than should not be thunk--like that Zionism was originally one of the many romantic race/culture movements that grew out of post-Christian (and anti christian) elitist intellectual movements in Europe.

Movements that included, among others, the Nazis. Zionismhas been re-Religionized--ovbiously because good, secular Lefties cannot comfortably assert zionism in it's original racial form--without the sanctification of Yahweh. It would be too embarrassing--especially with Palestinians screaming (and killing) about the odd limitations of the Right Of Return, and all that.

That must be why former Prime Minister Nertanyahu always goes out of his way to show appreciation for American Christian Zionists. They are useful in combatting the distasteful racial aspects of zionism with their belief that Jesus is so dumb he won't be able to find earth without Israel on the map.

It all works out very nicely for almost eveyone...

You want to be careful throwing that little fact around Lent. It leads to impure thoughts; thoughts than should not be thunk--like that Zionism was originally one of the many romantic race/culture movements that grew out of post-Christian (and anti christian) elitist intellectual movements in Europe.

Your simplistic reductionism does no justice to the aspirations and historical experiences of the Jews during this time. An aspiration and hope borne out of relentless persecution under Christendom and Islam.  When I read material from the diaspora Jews, for example 19th century Yemenite Jews, the repression they experienced as dhimmi for 12 centuries under Islam and their hope for a return to Zion seems to make your caricaturing not only inane but  ahistorical.

That must be why former Prime Minister Nertanyahu always goes out of his way to show appreciation for American Christian Zionists. They are useful in combatting the distasteful racial aspects of zionism with their belief that Jesus is so dumb he won't be able to find earth without Israel on the map.

Besides the fact that many Christians consider the Scriptures as not static and believe in the notion of salvation-history as progressive unfolding, your simplistic and insulting ascription to my beliefs is more indicative of the fact that I'm thankful for the Reformation and Enlightenment and the forces which ripped the papacy from its fornicating relationship with the state. If you were in charge I'm sure I'd have doses of Catholicism shoved down my gullet whether I liked it or not.