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Controversial Anti-Terrorism Provisions Will Never Expire(Ron Paul says it's unconstitutional )
cnsnews ^ | 11/26/2001 | Jeff Johnson

Posted on 11/26/2001 5:17:04 PM PST by KQQL

Controversial Anti-Terrorism Provisions Will Never Expire

By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief

November 26, 2001

(CNSNews.com) - Conservative lawmakers, who voted against the recently-passed anti-terrorism bill (H.R. 3162), are even more concerned now that they've learned the controversial provisions they opposed will never expire.

As CNSNews.com reported earlier, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) and Rep. C.L. "Butch" Otter (R-Idaho), along with three other members of Congress, opposed several parts of H.R. 3162.

"Generally, it was too broad a distribution of authority," Otter said. "It was way too broad a reach of powers."

Paul agrees, and is even more direct with his criticism.

"I was convinced that it was unconstitutional. That was my basic reason. The other is that a complete analysis wasn't available because the bill wasn't completely available," Paul said Tuesday. "That also made me very annoyed."

Paul says the full text of the proposal was never made available to House members prior to the vote. Surprisingly, he says, such tactics are not unusual.

"The logical conclusion would be that the more complex it is, the more time we should have to study it. But that's not the way it works in the Congress. As a matter of fact, it works almost the opposite way. The more complex, especially if controversial, the less likely it is that you'll get to read it," he explained. "This was a traditional method where they made it very difficult to know what was going on, and then the political pressure was put on the members to vote for it."

The Texas Republican says he faced even more pressure to vote for the bill simply because of its name: "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism" or USA PATRIOT Act.

"You know, who's going to vote against a bill that's called the 'patriot act'?" he asked. "And so, the pressure was tremendous on the members to go along and not ask too many questions."

Paul says many members privately voiced their concerns to him, but were unwilling to vote against the bill.

"It's pretty hard for people to go home and explain themselves," he said. "They have a pretty good sense that this type of legislation is bad, but the effort to buck the system and buck the establishment media is too difficult so they just go along with it."

Otter says many members, who might have otherwise voted against the bill, may have been pacified by the inclusion of a "sunset," or expiration clause in the proposal.

"The sunset, as far as I'm concerned, was an effort to say, 'Well, we're only after the terrorists, and we're only going to do this, and we're only going to do that, and we're going to sunset it after a certain period of time so you folks won't have to worry about it,'" he speculated. "That way, they got more people to vote for it because they said, 'Well, it's only going to go on for a certain period of time.'"

Paul says even the sunset clause does nothing to assuage his concerns.

"I'm not even that optimistic about the portions that sunset. I don't think we should just say, 'Oh, well, it's bad, but four years and then it's gone and we'll start all over again,'" Paul warned. "I would not be that complacent."

Paul's suspicion is well founded. The final version of the bill exempts all of the controversial provisions Otter and Paul opposed from that sunset clause. Section 224 of the final version of H.R. 3162, signed into law by President Bush says, "This title, and the amendments made by this title (other than sections 203(a), 203(c), 205, 208, 210, 211, 213, 216, 219, 221, and 222, and the amendments made by those sections) shall cease to have effect on December 31, 2005."

The following provisions, exempted from the sunset clause, were opposed by one or more of the five members of Congress who voted against the USA PATRIOT Act:

\li360\fi-360\tx360- Section 203(a): Authority to Share Grand Jury Information;
- Section 203(c): Rules established by the Attorney General to carry out 203(a);
- Section 210: Scope of Subpoenas for Records of Electronic Communications. (Legal analysts fear this provision could be used to gain access to the content of email messages without obtaining a search warrant.);
- Section 213: Authority for Delaying Notice of the Execution of a Warrant. (This is the so-called "sneak-and-peak" search warrant.);
- Section 216: Modification of Authorities Relating to the Use of Pen Registers and Trap-and-Trace Devices; and - Section 219: Single Jurisdiction Search Warrants for Terrorism. Paul says, under the logic used to promote the bill in the first place, it would have made sense to exempt those provisions from expiring.,p. "If these provisions are critical tools in the fight against terrorism, why remove the government's ability to use them after five years?" Paul asked, arguing against the bill on the House floor October 12. "Conversely, if these provisions violate American's constitutional rights why is it acceptable to suspend the Constitution at all?"

Otter was told there was a valid justification for exempting the provisions from the sunset clause.

"The reason they did that, ostensibly, was, if they had an investigation that was going on, they didn't want that to sunset it and to have the doors slammed in their face," Otter said. "That's the claim I've heard."

That claim may arouse even further suspicion on the part of members who opposed, but did not vote against the bill. Subsection (b) of the Sunset clause provides an exception for ongoing intelligence investigations:

"EXCEPTION- With respect to any particular foreign intelligence investigation that began before the date on which the provisions referred to in subsection (a) cease to have effect, or with respect to any particular offense or potential offense that began or occurred before the date on which such provisions cease to have effect, such provisions shall continue in effect."

That subsection makes an exemption from the sunset clause unnecessary, at least for the reasons explained to Otter. But he says he's not surprised at the unwillingness to cede the powers granted by the legislation.

"I have never seen a government agency lose authority. Ever!" Otter exclaimed. "We're still paying taxes on our telephone bills to fight the Spanish-American war."

Otter says he supports law enforcement, and has no regrets about voting against the bill. "If I'm going to err, I'm going to err on the side of freedom," he said.

Paul hopes more attention will be focused on the bill by these revelations.

"There's so much support for this type of legislation because everybody visualizes that it's going to be used only against 225 people who have been allegedly identified as terrorists," he cautioned. "Everybody, when they look at legislation like this should say, 'Well, could this be used against me for some other reason?'"


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 11/26/2001 5:17:04 PM PST by KQQL
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To: KQQL
Ron Paul is a KOOK. BUMP
2 posted on 11/26/2001 5:29:14 PM PST by VA Advogado
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To: KQQL
Good Post and a bump for Ron Paul the most honorable congressman we have.
3 posted on 11/26/2001 5:29:46 PM PST by Free the USA
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To: KQQL
These attacks on the constitution are alarming. And counter-productive. FReepers - take note. this is no way to fight this must-win war.
4 posted on 11/26/2001 5:34:08 PM PST by Gimlet
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To: VA Advogado
Ron Paul is NOT a kook. He is a U.S. Congressman.

BTW. -- Your participation on threads should be to discuss the issue at hand, the article topic and any discussion relating to that topic. Anything outside of that range can be cause for suspension.

5 posted on 11/26/2001 5:41:05 PM PST by tpaine
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To: VA Advogado
Ron Paul is a RINO, who couldn't win as a Libertarian, so has taken to running on the Republican ticket, takes their money, and votes against EVERYTHING ( including the Bush tax reduction ! ) the GOP proposess; good , bad, or indifferent.

Oh, and FYI, the WW1 phone tax has been rescinded.

6 posted on 11/26/2001 5:46:12 PM PST by nopardons
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To: KQQL
Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism" or USA PATRIOT Act.

Or the name it's known by in the national government "Uniting and Softening America to Provide Appropriate Tools Required to Institute One Tyranny.

God, it makes me wish I would have joined the potheads(as much as I am against drugs) in fighting the WOD. Now we are truly one step away from a police state and the sheep are happy as long as they are safe. And what's worse is the conservatives(I wish some would truly think about what that means) are full on for it

The Second Amendment is all but gone, the First is only there if you're for 'all religions are equal and the US is always right', the Fourth and Sixth? well if you stand up for those you're asked 'what do you have to be afraid of'? The Tenth went away so long ago nobody knows(who doesn't bother to actually read historical fact) or cares(well some do, down here remember us? the Rebs?)

The way some are acting they'd be more than happy to forget the Third and have soldiers all up in their house, and if you disagree you're called un-American. Nobody remembers what the 7th and 8th say so that won't matter much.

God bless Ron Paul and anybody else willing to stand up. These 'laws' will not go away. They are here to stay. And 10 years from now, there'll be another and another until we've blacked out all the Amendments that give rights to anyone but the STATE

7 posted on 11/26/2001 5:49:00 PM PST by billbears
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To: nopardons
Ron Paul is a RINO, who couldn't win as a Libertarian, so has taken to running on the Republican ticket, takes their money, and votes against EVERYTHING ( including the Bush tax reduction ! ) the GOP proposess; good , bad, or indifferent.

Ahhhhhhh. Someone else that sees the light. Apparently the previous poster can't appreciate a government offical who can be both kook and congressman. Eventually he'll see the light. Have you seen some of the bizzare things Paul has done? UGH.

8 posted on 11/26/2001 5:50:41 PM PST by VA Advogado
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To: nopardons
"Ron Paul is a RINO"
Yeah, but the real republicans are all fools and sellouts, so he is a huge improvement.
9 posted on 11/26/2001 6:22:49 PM PST by WarrenGamaliel
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To: nopardons
Ron Paul...votes against EVERYTHING (including the Bush tax reduction!)

FYI, Ron Paul voted FOR the Bush tax cut.

Ron Paul on 31 March 2001:

"I always vote to reduce taxes," Paul stated. "Texans in my district know that I support every tax cut bill in Congress, as my voting record shows. I supported President Bush by voting to lower tax rates for all taxpayers, and I also voted to end the unfair marriage penalty. I will vote to end the destructive estate tax, which is the third plank in the President's tax cut plan. Rest assured that I will support his plan in its entirety. I applaud the President for following through on his campaign promise to reduce taxes on American families."......"My commitment to voters is simple: I follow the Constitution and I fight to make government smaller. This commitment compels me to vote for all tax cuts and against all spending increases. Although my own legislation would reduce taxes more drastically, I always will support the President's tax-cutting efforts as a positive step in the right direction."
Ron Paul on 11 June 2001:
Last week President Bush signed into law the tax cut bill that ultimately emerged as a compromise between competing political interests in the House and Senate. I voted for and fully support the tax reductions contained in the bill, and I appreciate the President's efforts in making tax relief the first priority in his new administration.

10 posted on 11/26/2001 6:22:59 PM PST by The_Expatriate
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: tex-oma
It still amazes to see Ron Paul trashed on this forum.

He voted no because they hadn't given him a draft of the bill to read and he's a kook.

I'm sure he knows that the ESA sunsetted years ago and yet here it is because of funding.

Unbelievable.

12 posted on 11/26/2001 6:34:38 PM PST by nunya bidness
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To: VA Advogado
Have you seen some of the bizzare things Paul has done? UGH.

Please list them. I can't wait.

13 posted on 11/26/2001 6:36:02 PM PST by nunya bidness
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: VA Advogado
"Have you seen some of the bizzare things Paul has done?"

Man...are you ever correct!!!!!!

Standing up for your beliefs is REALLY bizarre in the Republican Party.

redrock

15 posted on 11/26/2001 6:40:51 PM PST by redrock
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To: WarrenGamaliel
Do, EVERY Republican is a fool and a sellout ? REALLY ? Tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk. And Ron Paul is a failure as a Libertarian, a fraud, and about as useful in the House, as Jeffries was in the Senate.

Now, aren't you proud ? If Ron is such an improvment, and valued member, then pray tell WHY isn't he better thought of by his peers ( no one , outside of FR , and his constiuants has the vaguest idea who he is, nor what he hasn't managed to accomplished. What eactly HAS he accomlishe, BTW ?

16 posted on 11/26/2001 6:43:15 PM PST by nopardons
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To: redrock
Standing up for your beliefs is REALLY bizarre in the Republican Party.

I thought he was a libertarian? He's only a Republican around election time when he needs their cash and ballot designation. By the way, how is Ron Paul's Letters and Marque thing going?

17 posted on 11/26/2001 6:45:55 PM PST by VA Advogado
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To: nopardons
Ron Paul is an excellent congressman. He supports freedom. Is that hard for you to understand? BTW - If he's such a failure, why does his district keep electing him? They are his boss, not GW Bush.
18 posted on 11/26/2001 6:47:04 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: nunya bidness
There you go again.....using FACTS.

How unfair....(grin)

redrock

19 posted on 11/26/2001 6:48:11 PM PST by redrock
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To: VA Advogado
You advocate an umlimited 1st Amendment right, but a limited 4th Amendment right. I say that is pretty bizarre.
20 posted on 11/26/2001 6:48:31 PM PST by Free Vulcan
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