Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Why Western Soldiers Have Always Been Such Fierce Fighters
NY Times ^ | 12-01-01 | Edward Rothstein

Posted on 12/01/2001 11:11:52 AM PST by Pharmboy

Book Review

December 1, 2001

Why Western Soldiers Have Always Been Such Fierce Fighters
By EDWARD ROTHSTEIN

[a review of:]
CARNAGE AND CULTURE

Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power
By Victor Davis Hanson
Doubleday. 455 pages. $29.95

In 480 B.C., near Salamis off the coast of Greece, an armada of perhaps a thousand Persian ships attacked some 300 Greek vessels. This was, as the military historian and classicist Victor Davis Hanson writes in this provocative book, "one of the most deadly battles in the entire history of naval warfare." Lured by a brilliant Greek strategy through the narrow straits, and rammed by Greek ships, hundreds of Persian vessels were sunk; more than 40,000 Persian soldiers were drowned or killed.

But Mr. Hanson, who teaches at California State University in Fresno, says this battle is more than just a textbook example of warfare. Herodotus pointed out that many of the Persian fighters were mercenaries or slaves; any soldierly hesitation was typically punished by beheading. Free citizens, Herodotus argued, made better warriors — more motivated and more flexible. The Greeks were fighting, as Aeschylus pointed out, for their freedom; the Persians, out of fear or greed.

For Mr. Hanson, these differences were not only evident at Salamis. Mr. Hanson also examines nine battles extending over 2,500 years, including the defeat of the Romans by Hannibal in 216 B.C.; the battle between Christians and Muslems at Lepanto in 1571; the massacre of the British by the Zulus in 1879; and the confusion of the 1968 Tet offensive of the Vietnam War. In his view, the distinctive characteristics of Western culture ran through each of these battles.

Western armies tended to rely on warriors who were not mercenaries but free citizens with something personal at stake. The mixture of discipline and autonomy led to a particular style of engagement. Unlike the Persians, the Aztecs, the Zulus, the Ottomans and the Japanese, who brutally enforced absolute obedience, Western fighters have been relatively free to react to shifting events. This flexibility helped determine the American victory in the bloody battles against Japan at Midway in World War II, Mr. Hanson says.

It also permitted debate before, during and after battles, debate that has given Western accounts of military history extraordinary variety and authority. In addition, individualism and innovation, partly spurred by economies freer than those of opponents, led to the invention of weapons that have been adopted by every major military force in the world.

In many of these battles, of course, Western culture could also contribute to its own defeat. Hannibal and his motley army took advantage of what Mr. Hanson characterizes as Western assault strategy to kill 50,000 Roman soldiers in 216 B.C. In Vietnam, the Tet offensive was widely considered a Western defeat (a mistaken judgment, in Mr. Hanson's view), partly because American planners "completely ignored the tenets of the entire Western military heritage"; the Western tradition of dissent, he suggests, also overwhelmed that heritage. But Mr. Hanson asserts that in the West, defeats have not been final; they have led to introspective revision. Rome rose again; the experience of Vietnam led to decades of analysis.

In his interpretation, Mr. Hanson combines two visions of the West that have themselves been at war during the last 30 years: the celebration of the West for its democratic vision of human liberty, and the condemnation of the West for militarism and imperialism. The tendency is to see these positions as incompatible.

Mr. Hanson argues that the reverse is true: they are inseparable. Democratic ideals have led to greater military power. "Adherence to structures of constitutional government, capitalism, freedom of religious and political association, free speech and intellectual tolerance," he says, has produced a soldier who can "kill like none other on the planet." These characteristics have made war between Western countries among the bloodiest, but have also led to the triumph of the West.

In making this argument, Mr. Hanson joins a group of scholars who do not explain Western dominance as a result of modern imperialism. Jared Diamond (in "Guns, Germs, and Steel") sees geography and environment as the primary influences on the development of Western technology and power; David S. Landes (in "The Wealth and Poverty of Nations") argues that differences in cultural values and social organization made the difference. Mr. Hanson disagrees with Mr. Diamond but amplifies Mr. Landes's argument, suggesting that culture, however admirable, creates a "very deadly reality" in the outcomes of war. The West, he writes, possesses a "weighty and sometimes ominous heritage" in which its manner of war ideally "serves, rather than buries, our civilization."

Military historians will have to analyze Mr. Hanson's accounts. Indeed, not everything is convincing in his generalizations. Mr. Hanson also does not successfully address the nature of modern guerilla warfare, the nature of Islamic triumphs, the wide variations among Western nations or the ways in which Western strategic style grows out of Western culture.

But after Sept. 11, other issues come to mind while reading the book. Even applying Mr. Hanson's interpretation, the culture of Western warfare is being tested against a very different kind of opponent. Certainly, Western individualism and improvisation could remain important. His view of Western military technique could arguably be found in October's swift frontal assaults of air power on specific targets. And disagreements about strategy among the leaders of the war — hidden or forbidden in many other societies — have already become the subject of public debate.

Yet given the international reach of the enemy, its networked cells, the absence of a traditional battlefield and the resilience of terrorist passions, that military heritage may be challenged. Both the Defense Department and the Rand Corporation have already called for a structural revision of the military by creating decentralized networks better prepared for new forms of battle. It may be that in this case not only will Western culture influence styles of war, but styles of war will also begin to transform Western culture.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: anamericansoldier; terrorwar
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-39 next last
I thought that some of you Freepers would be interested in this book review.
1 posted on 12/01/2001 11:11:52 AM PST by Pharmboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Thanks for posting this.
2 posted on 12/01/2001 11:18:44 AM PST by michaelt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Thanks this reminds me of the opening of this war and the liberal media was going on about the invincible Afgans and America was facing a quagmire.I bet they were hoping for another Vietnam.
3 posted on 12/01/2001 11:24:41 AM PST by freeforall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
The concept of "right versus wrong" also plays a major factor in a soldier's motivation. A soldier who sincerely believes he's on the "right" side will fight harder than one who knows in his heart that his sacrifice is pointless. The German army produced some of the best trained, equipped, and motivated soldiers in the world, but by the last months of both world wars, most German soldiers were mainly worried about surviving until the peace.
4 posted on 12/01/2001 11:29:47 AM PST by ozzymandus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy; *TerrOrWar
Thanks for posting this.

Most enlightening!

To find all articles tagged or indexed using above index words

Go here: OFFICIAL BUMP(TOPIC)LIST

and then click the topic to initiate the search! !

5 posted on 12/01/2001 12:08:50 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ozzymandus
Kind of like the Taliban !!
6 posted on 12/01/2001 12:10:34 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Hanson has some wonderful insights, but I tried reading his previous work, The Soul of Battle, and found it unreadable. Maybe I'll give it a second shot.

As to his newest, I scanned it over an iced coffee at Border's several months ago. He had a particularly interesting section on Midway. After vividly illustrating the deeds of heroes like John Waldron, Max Leslie and Wade McCluskey, Hanson speculates that today's American society would not produce such heroes. He sarcastically asks if today's suburban Ashleys and Eliots could be capable of the deeds of Waldron and Leslie. I think 9/11 answered that question. Around here on Long Island, the original suburb, the wail of bagpipes at Catholic Churhes from one end of the island to the other reminds us that modern suburban America has produced men whose deeds solidly match those of their forebears.

7 posted on 12/01/2001 12:14:06 PM PST by xkaydet65
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xkaydet65
Island, the original suburb, the wail of bagpipes at Catholic Churhes from one end of the island to the other reminds us that modern suburban America has produced men whose deeds solidly match those of their forebears.

If we had to depend on our "elite" we'd be doomed, but the Heartland (which is more a state of mind than a place) still produces heroes.

8 posted on 12/01/2001 12:31:44 PM PST by KJMorgan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
bttt
9 posted on 12/01/2001 12:34:01 PM PST by Don Myers
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xkaydet65
"I think 9/11 answered that question. Around here on Long Island, the original suburb, the wail of bagpipes at Catholic Churhes from one end of the island to the other reminds us that modern suburban America has produced men whose deeds solidly match those of their forebears."

Todd Beamer and the others who led the passenger revolt on UA 93 were all Gen Xers.

Gratifying that, when they needed to, the next generation responded just as their grandfathers had responded.
We've still "got it"...

10 posted on 12/01/2001 12:56:37 PM PST by okie01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: xkaydet65
You have some pretty good insights yourself.
11 posted on 12/01/2001 1:06:48 PM PST by Pharmboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: gunnyg; *An American Soldier; Jeff Head
Ping!
12 posted on 12/01/2001 1:07:48 PM PST by Pharmboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: okie01
Good post.

I've been thinking about "duty", that most adult of virtues, and think that one can say that "duty" is the willingness to see what must be done, and to do it. Todd Beamer and the boys show this well. Duty and responsibility, which make up prudence, is impossible except for the Free Man. Besides, we have the most beautiful women, the wisest and best in the world.

This laast is not a boast but the truth.

13 posted on 12/01/2001 1:37:44 PM PST by Iris7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: freeforall
Thanks this reminds me of the opening of this war and the liberal media was going on about the invincible Afgans and America was facing a quagmire.I bet they were hoping for another Vietnam.

One American is worth more than 1000 muslim fanatics and can outfight 50.

14 posted on 12/01/2001 2:07:21 PM PST by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Mr. Hanson also does not successfully address the nature of modern guerilla warfare, the nature of Islamic triumphs, the wide variations among Western nations or the ways in which Western strategic style grows out of Western culture.

Perhaps this is because there have been few Islamic triumphs, paticularly in the last 200 yrs. The last 200 years are noted for their stunning and breathtaking defeats.

15 posted on 12/01/2001 3:08:50 PM PST by L`enn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xkaydet65
A few weeks ago the NYTimes had an article about recruiting in the NY area. The recruiters said they got no bump. The article said the 80% of the enlistees were immigrants. I feel confident, from experience, that the norteast, does not serv in proportion to its population.
16 posted on 12/01/2001 3:48:03 PM PST by Leisler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Nah, I wouldn't insult the German army by comparing them to the taliban. Come to think of it, I wouldn't even insult the Waffen-SS that way.
17 posted on 12/01/2001 4:22:38 PM PST by ozzymandus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: ozzymandus
I should have been more specific.

I had in mind this :

but by the last months of both world wars, most German soldiers were mainly worried about surviving until the peace.

That is what the afghan Taliban fighter is thinking about!

18 posted on 12/01/2001 4:34:41 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: xkaydet65
As to his newest, I scanned it over an iced coffee at Border's several months ago. He had a particularly interesting section on Midway. After vividly illustrating the deeds of heroes like John Waldron, Max Leslie and Wade McCluskey, Hanson speculates that today's American society would not produce such heroes.

A silly argument. First, the real key to Midway was that we could read their code, so we knew when and where to expect them. Second, the Japanese failed to find us quickly enough only because the radio on their scout plane that first spotted our guys was broken. Next, our attack got all messed up and went in wrong, but this worked in out favor when the Dive Bombers arrived.

As a Russian general comments on the American Army; "Don't bother reading their manuals to learn what they will do next, because they never read them.'

As a German general commented on our army: "War is Chaos, and the American army is successful at it because it practices chaos on a daily basis."

I don't think it has changed any. The comparison of the firefighters going into the WTC to the Navy torpedo bombers being shot down at Midway shows we haven't changed any. We are still willing to go in when we shouldn't, and we tend to be lucky more often than not simply because we still keep taking our chances.

19 posted on 12/01/2001 4:38:17 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Iris7
"Besides, we have the most beautiful women, the wisest and best in the world."

My wife would agree with you. As, of course, would I.

"Duty and responsibility, which make up prudence, is impossible except for the Free Man."

So very, very true. Duty can only be exercised in a voluntary sense. And responsibility for one's self and family is the self-restraint we must practice in order to fulfill our duty.

Speaking as a man, a husband, a father and a grandfather...it's a happy job.

20 posted on 12/01/2001 4:48:48 PM PST by okie01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-39 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson