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Andrew Sullivan: THE AMERICAN TALIBAN
andrewsullivan.com ^ | 12/03/2001 | Andrew Sullivan

Posted on 12/03/2001 11:50:25 AM PST by Pokey78

Yes, many people have woefully abused this term as a way to tar all sorts of characters with a demagogic brush. But in some cases, it actually is fair.

I refer to a fringe group known as Christian Reconstructionists, far right Christians who believe that the Constitution should be replaced by Biblical law, that women have no place in public life, that homosexuals should be executed, that non-Christians should be forcibly converted, and so on.

Now, you’d think these extremists would be personae non gratae in the Taliban-fighting Bush White House, wouldn’t you? So why on earth has the administration considered nominating one Robert Brame III to the National Labor Relations Board?

Until recently, Brame was on the board of American Vision, a Christian Reconstructionist body, and was an adviser to the Plymouth Rock Foundation, a group with similar views. Here’s a recent quote from an AV representative in their magazine:

“We've been told that Christians cannot impose their religious beliefs on others. Since heaven is at stake, we have no choice. There is no hope outside of Jesus Christ."
Remind you of anyone? A June 1999 edition of the group’s magazine described democracy as “the first step toward fascism.”

I’m sorry but something is seriously wrong when people associated with views such as these are deemed worthy of appointment by any administration. The president has a chance to save himself from this embarrassment. He ought to – and fast.


TOPICS: Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: andrewsullivanlist; christianlist; christianpersecutio; religion
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Fire away!
1 posted on 12/03/2001 11:50:26 AM PST by Pokey78
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To: mombonn; Howlin; Miss Marple; summer; MHGinTN; WaterDragon; *Andrew Sullivan list; RottiBiz...
A ping you may or may not agree with. But there it is.
2 posted on 12/03/2001 11:57:02 AM PST by Pokey78
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To: mombonn; Howlin; Miss Marple; summer; MHGinTN; WaterDragon; *Andrew Sullivan list; RottiBiz...
A ping you may or may not agree with. But there it is.
3 posted on 12/03/2001 12:01:33 PM PST by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
Sullivan is just as bigoted as those he accuses. He just wants a world where everybody supports his lifestyle. Hey Andy, som people don't like your lifestyle. That's life, deal with it.

BTW: He seems uncomfortable with some groups thoughts on "Democracy." He better consider himslf luck that we don't live in a pure democracy, as a majority vote could potentially send him and his friends to the stake. A representative Republic protects us all, while Democracy is merely the imposition of the will of the sheeple on everyone.

4 posted on 12/03/2001 12:04:18 PM PST by Clemenza
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To: Pokey78
A June 1999 edition of the group’s magazine described democracy as “the first step toward fascism.”

Like all caricatures, this statement exaggerates a few particular truths about its subject. No less a man than Plato thought that democracy led to despotism. A Revolutionary-era writer described the tyrant as a man whose "savage passions are not bounded by the laws of reason, religion, honor, or a regard to his subjects, and the point to which all his movements center, is the gratification of a brutal appetite." Whether the tyranny is based in one man or many, there is a certain similarity between some democratic and despotic systems.

5 posted on 12/03/2001 12:42:39 PM PST by Dumb_Ox
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To: Pokey78
far right Christians who believe that the Constitution should be replaced by Biblical law, that women have no place in public life, that homosexuals should be executed, that non-Christians should be forcibly converted, and so on.

If the above are indeed an accurate rendition of the views of the group, that is kooksville, and Bush should not give anyone a job in anyway associated with it. I agree with Sullivan.

Even at FR, which has lots of escapees from the sandbox, I can't think of one that has posted anything agreeing with any of the above. One well known Freeper did at Firetalk opine that gays should be executed if they persisted in their ways after being given fair warning. Even he however never had the guts to put that point of view in a post.

On a practical level, carrying the culture wars too far is total political poison. Just ask Pat Buchanan. Most voters aten't looking for a stern in loco parentis from government, and won't stand for it.

6 posted on 12/03/2001 12:42:47 PM PST by Torie
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To: Pokey78
This article proves my point on Sullivan. The man is not balanced. And, like it or not, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS IMMORAL LIFESTYLE!!! (there's alot of immorality in the world, gays are but one example, however, my point on Sullivan is that he is NOT what he claims to be. He's a moderate at best. He can pen some great columns, but the guy is as bipolar as they come. He wants conservatives to accept him into the "big tent" but he cannot do the same for Jerry Falwell, e.g.. Sullivan is smart, but he's a phony with only one real issue---he likes his sex with men and he wants to force everyone to call it "good". My biggest gripe is that he condoned that horrible column about how new studies show child sex may not always be so bad. That tell s me that's probably how his gayness started and it is NEVER OKAY!!!!!!!!!)
7 posted on 12/03/2001 12:43:07 PM PST by Media2Powerful
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To: Dumb_Ox
I refer to a fringe group known as Christian Reconstructionists, far right Christians ought to use a small 'c' here, Andrew who believe that the Constitution should be replaced by Biblical law, that women have no place in public life, that homosexuals should be executed, that non-Christians should be forcibly converted, and so on. Even a nazi SS extermination camp guard can call himself christian, but to advocate killing homosexuals is beyond the scope of a true Christian, for we know that God hates the sin, but loves the sinner ... and once a homosexual is dead, if not repentant, the forced passing removes the opportunity for the thing we Christians hold most vital, the conversion by God's Spirit come to the human spirit by the grace of Christ crucified and risen a new. Sending people to Hell is not the job of Christians acting in the name of Christ, but demons would love to bring such a false notion to the fore.
8 posted on 12/03/2001 12:44:14 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: Media2Powerful
Which part of the Christian Reconstructionist agenda do YOU agree with? Come on now, don't be shy.
9 posted on 12/03/2001 12:46:01 PM PST by Torie
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To: Pokey78
group known as Christian Reconstructionists

I just cannot keep up! Never heard of THIS one; I take it they are farther to the right than the "right," right?

I think this is a POOR choice for a nominee.

10 posted on 12/03/2001 12:46:23 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Torie
Christian Reconstructionists

They must be the Skull & Bones of the conservative movement.

11 posted on 12/03/2001 12:47:52 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Pokey78
I am sure this American taliban man is just a victim of the system and needs our full sympathy and understanding.


12 posted on 12/03/2001 12:58:01 PM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Pokey78
I agree with Sullivan. Anyone who advocates shredding the First Amendment with their religious beliefs are kindred spirits of the Taliban.
13 posted on 12/03/2001 12:58:03 PM PST by JoeMomma
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To: Howlin
Actually they are so far to the left they come back around and are referred to as the right.
14 posted on 12/03/2001 12:58:43 PM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Pokey78
I think I have to agree with Sullivan on this one. The Reconstructionists are attempting to impose God's government plan for ancient Israel on the modern US, and that negates the whole purpose of the New Testament, which fulfills Old Testament Law through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The Reconstructionists will probably go to Heaven and Sullivan will probably go to Hell, but neither of them should be in government.

15 posted on 12/03/2001 12:59:10 PM PST by JoeSchem
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To: Pokey78
The Creed of Christian Reconstruction (according to the Rev. Andrew Sandlin):
A Christian Reconstructionist is a Dominionist. He takes seriously the Bible's commands to the godly to take dominion in the earth. This is the goal of the gospel and the Great Commission. The Christian Reconstructionist believes the earth and all its fullness is the Lord's: that every area dominated by sin must be "reconstructed" in terms of the Bible. This includes, first, the individual; second, the family; third, the church; and fourth, the wider society, including the state. The Christian Reconstructionist therefore believes fervently in Christian civilization. He firmly believes in the separation of church and state, but not the separation of the state or anything else from God. He is not a revolutionary; he does not believe in the militant, forced overthrow of human government. He has infinitely more powerful weapons than guns and bombs, he has the invincible Spirit of God, the infallible word of God, and the incomparable gospel of God, none of which can fail.

16 posted on 12/03/2001 1:00:25 PM PST by samtheman
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To: Torie
I am a Christian Fundamentalist and doubt ANY Christians believe any of those accusations. Free will is a cornerstone of Christianity and that includes the free will to sin and reject Jesus. This is a famous tactic of the left to exagerate claims and call Christians Nazis/Talibns. This is the classic PC thug tactic that eliminates any discussion on morality and dehuminizes anyone who disagrees with their dogma.

Pray for GW and the Truth!

17 posted on 12/03/2001 1:02:31 PM PST by bray
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
Actually they are so far to the left they come back around and are referred to as the right.

That's the most sensible statement about these wackos I've ever seen! Start referring to the Christian Reconstructionists as Extreme Left Wing Wackos! Maybe the truth will catch on and they'll be associated witht ehir philosophical brethren on the Left!

18 posted on 12/03/2001 1:02:32 PM PST by LuvItOrLeaveIt
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To: Pokey78
I find it humourous that in my latest posts search I see these two articles right next too each other:

At least three people claiming to be Americans emerge from defeated Taliban units
Reply 6 to Corporate Law by TADSLOS
10463770 posted on 12/3/01 3:44 PM central

Andrew Sullivan: THE AMERICAN TALIBAN
Reply 8 to Dumb_Ox by MHGinTN
10463769 posted on 12/3/01 3:44 PM central
There really is an American Taliban, Virginia, and its not the Christians.
19 posted on 12/03/2001 1:02:38 PM PST by patent
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
God, you post and that tragic picture is so perfect!

I want to send that to every liberal who whines about this American traitor.

In fact, if there is ANY Freeping of this guy, we should have posters made of this picture and all the other horrible pics of 9/11!!!!

20 posted on 12/03/2001 1:03:10 PM PST by SunnyUsa
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