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State Taxes Legal?

Posted on 12/04/2001 3:46:26 PM PST by Constitution Scholar

''obligation or other security of the United States'' includes all ... Federal Reserve notes...
Stocks and obligations of the United States Government are exempt from taxation by a State or political subdivision of a State.


FWD:

In Pennsylvania, where I live, we have a local tax of one percent. I have lived there for 15 years and have not filed as of yet. I have gotten several notices that they will take me to court if I do not pay the tax. I have been waiting for them to follow up on these threats because I want to raise this issue. I am hoping that when the time comes I can get some help from people in this group who are better versed in court proceedings than myself because this case would have many important implications:

1. which takes precedence local, state, or federal law
2. if I win and it is found that states can not tax the FRNs will they realize (with our help of course) that they surrendered their power to tax when they approved the use of paper money vs gold and silver
3. and if I lose, and states can tax FRNs despite federal statutes to the contrary, does this give us another vehicle to attach the federal income tax by passing local or state statutes saying we do not have to pay

I believe that this is very important. A win on this and the state gets flooded with requests (demands) for refunds of all state income taxes collected illegally. A loss and we pressure local and state politicians who we have much more control over to pass laws saying we do not have to pay federal taxes. I would hate to be the judge sitting on this one. He can't win.


Gary.

Let me start with a few statutes of law.

18 U.S.C. § 8.
Sec. 8. Obligation or other security of the United States defined

The term ''obligation or other security of the United States'' includes all bonds, certificates of indebtedness, national bank currency, Federal Reserve notes, Federal Reserve bank notes, coupons, United States notes, Treasury notes, gold certificates, silver certificates, fractional notes, certificates of deposit, bills, checks, or drafts for money, drawn by or upon authorized officers of the United States, stamps and other representatives of value, of whatever denomination, issued under any Act of Congress, and canceled United States stamps.


12 U.S.C. § 411
Sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption

Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.


31 U.S.C. § 3124
Sec. 3124. Exemption from taxation

(a) Stocks and obligations of the United States Government are exempt from taxation by a State or political subdivision of a State. The exemption applies to each form of taxation that would require the obligation, the interest on the obligation, or both, to be considered in computing a tax, except -
(1) a nondiscriminatory franchise tax or another nonproperty tax instead of a franchise tax, imposed on a corporation; and
(2) an estate or inheritance tax

I understand that federal reserve notes are legal tender, but unlike gold and silver coin, federal reserve notes are obligations of the United States. How can the state or political subdivision of a State tax citizens on their income if the income they receive is federal reserve notes, which are obligations of the United States?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial
KEYWORDS: taxreform

1 posted on 12/04/2001 3:46:26 PM PST by Constitution Scholar
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To: Constitution Scholar
*state income taxes
2 posted on 12/04/2001 3:48:20 PM PST by Constitution Scholar
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To: taxtruth; Dunner; DoughtyOne; Mikey; chainsaw; freedomnews; Free Vulcan; jeremiah; Alamo-Girl...
bump
3 posted on 12/04/2001 3:50:58 PM PST by Constitution Scholar
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To: *Taxreform
ping
4 posted on 12/04/2001 3:53:14 PM PST by Constitution Scholar
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To: Constitution Scholar
Never point a loaded gun at your head.
5 posted on 12/04/2001 3:59:45 PM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: VRWC_minion
Never point a loaded gun at your head.

Somebody has to be the "Don't try this at home" role model.

/john

6 posted on 12/04/2001 4:04:37 PM PST by JRandomFreeper
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To: VRWC_minion
if you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything at all
7 posted on 12/04/2001 4:04:42 PM PST by Constitution Scholar
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To: ancient_geezer; pigdog; Taxman
What you got on this, geez?
8 posted on 12/04/2001 4:06:15 PM PST by Principled
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To: Constitution Scholar
I think the flaw in your reasoning is that you pay your taxes with Federal Reserve Notes not that you are taxed for possessing them. You are taxed for your income, which happens to be denominated in Federal Reserve Notes.
9 posted on 12/04/2001 4:12:43 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: Constitution Scholar
The first underlined phrase of interest is "obligation or other security of the United States", while the second should be "obligations of the United States Government" (you're underlining suggests you've taken it out of context). You're mixing apples and oranges.

Don't expect to see me on prison visiting days.

10 posted on 12/04/2001 4:13:16 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
12 U.S.C. § 411 Sec. 411.
Federal reserve notes.... The said notes shall be obligations of the United States...

Is that part worded better for you?
11 posted on 12/04/2001 4:15:36 PM PST by Constitution Scholar
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To: Constitution Scholar
Err, translation:

"If you don't share the psychotic delusion that state and/or federal income taxes are suddenly going to be overturned by a court case, don't say anything at all."

12 posted on 12/04/2001 4:18:13 PM PST by John H K
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To: Johnny B.
oh I see what you mean. There is no difference, because

is not itself specifically defined elsewhere in the code as something else.
13 posted on 12/04/2001 4:26:37 PM PST by Constitution Scholar
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
It is not my reasoning, I'm merely posting this message. (I live in MD)

However note this:

Since I get paid in FRNs, and they count my income from that pay, they would be considered in computing that tax.

14 posted on 12/04/2001 4:30:31 PM PST by Constitution Scholar
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To: Constitution Scholar
I have always paid my taxes willingly. When I see what happens in other countries I am thankful I live and pay taxes here. I believe a child could see that you are wrong about this. Pay your taxes, we are a great nation and need to stay that way for the good of everyone.
15 posted on 12/04/2001 5:49:52 PM PST by kampeska
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To: Constitution Scholar
Interesting. However I'll have to forward this one to the "I don't care" department since I live in Florida where a state income tax is unconstitutional. Although I'd like to hear a judge's explanation.

---max

16 posted on 12/04/2001 6:34:14 PM PST by max61
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To: Constitution Scholar
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17 posted on 12/04/2001 6:57:13 PM PST by WIMom
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