Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE IS A BLACK HOLE OF STUPIDITY
Gun Laws of America | 12.08.2001 | Alan Korwin

Posted on 12/09/2001 7:08:54 PM PST by CHICAGOFARMER

GUN-SHOW BILL IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY

GUN-SHOW BILL IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY

GUN-SHOW BILL IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY

CONTACT YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN AND TELL THEM SO!

Re: S. 890, The McCain-Lieberman Bill: "Gun Show Loophole Closing and Gun Law Enforcement Act of 2001."

by Alan Korwin, Author Gun Laws of America

Mass media publicity on the newly proposed gun-show bill is grossly inaccurate.

The bill has almost nothing to do with what you've probably heard so far. The so-called "gun-show loophole" headlines are a minor detail and basically obscure what the bill really does.

I've just finished studying the eight pages of legalese. Here is it what it calls for:

1. Unprecedented federal control over gun shows nationwide -- perfectly legal gun shows become strictly outlawed without prior federal approval, licensing and registration of each show;

2. Centralized federal licensing and registration of every gun-show promoter in the nation;

3. Centralized federal registration of every vendor -- including non-gun vendors -- at any gun show in the country. In order for me to sell my BOOKS at a gun show I'll have to pre-register and prove who I am, or face arrest; a private individual looking to sell a single gun would be treated as a vendor under this law and must be registered even if the gun isn't sold;

4. Centralized federal registration of EVERY PERSON who attends a gun show in America, whether or not they make purchases of anything at all -- you won't be allowed in without registering; 5. Centralized collection of "any other information" on gun-show attendees, as determined solely by the Secretary of the Treasury;

6. Imprisonment for attending a gun show and failing to give up any information required by regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury;

7. Imprisonment of any gun-show promoter who fails to register a single vendor;

8. Imprisonment of gun-show promoters who cannot prove they notified every person attending a gun show of the new rules, and obtained from attendees any information the Secretary of the Treasury mandates by regulation;

9. Centralized collection of "any other information" the Secretary of the Treasury decides, by regulation, is necessary on vendors, attendees, and the gun show itself;

10. Submission by gun-show promoters of vendor registration logs a) 30 days before any gun show, and b) additional submission of updated vendor registration logs 72 hours before any gun show, and c) additional submission of vendor registration logs within five days of the close of any gun show, under penalty of arrest and imprisonment for non-compliance;

11. Identification of vendors only by use of federally approved photo ID that may include use of a social security number, electronically encoded data, or "biometric identifiers" such as fingerprint, voice print, retina scan, iris scan, or similar (as defined under 18 USC 1028(d)(2));

12. Creation of a new license (in addition to a gun-show-promoter license), similar to FFLs, for individuals who want access to the NICS national background check system for facilitating gun-show sales for private citizens;

13. Regulations to be issued by the Secretary of the Treasury on the procedures, data collections, methods and implementation of the entire process to federally control gun shows, in addition to the requirements made by the proposed statute; such regulations will not be known, drafted or even suggested, until after the McCain-Lieberman law is enacted;

14. The proposed bill also puts pressure on state governments to make at least 95% of their law enforcement records for the past 30 years openly available to the federal government; and

-- makes unlimited funds available for the states to comply with these federal goals;

-- requires annual federal review of states' compliance;

-- increases penalties (up to ten years imprisonment) for record-keeping violations;

-- grants states permission to make even more restrictive requirements without being out of compliance with these new federal laws (and by implication, puts states that resist these rules in federal trouble);

-- provides hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars for more law enforcement under numerous programs including project Exile and others;

-- hires 200 more Federal BATF Agents;

-- provides $10 million to the National Institute for Justice to give out for research on "technologies that limit the use of a gun to the owner"; and

-- provides for annual reports (in great detail) by the Attorney General to Congress on whether the Brady law is working;

15. Enlargement of the federal bureaucracy and appropriation from taxpayers of "such funds as are necessary" to license, register and monitor an estimated ten million non-criminals who attend the thousands of gun shows held annually in America; and

16. Oh yes, I almost forgot about the so-called "loophole" part the media is so excited about -- the McCain-Lieberman bill will make an honest private citizen a criminal for transferring a gun to another honest private citizen, without first registering the transfer with, and getting permission from, the federal government (represented by the FBI at its data complex in Clarksburg, West Virginia).

Transfer or possession of a firearm to or by a criminal (a "federally prohibited possessor") is completely unaffected by the McCain-Lieberman "loophole" bill, so I guess it's accurate to characterize it as a loophole bill.

To sum up: Perfectly legal gun sales -- with no victims or criminal activity of any kind -- are outlawed at gun shows by the McCain-Lieberman bill, unless the sale is pre-registered with the federal government; real crimes are totally unaffected; and your friends in the federal government take over full control of gun shows -- which have been previously free of government infringement for more than 200 years.

Please write your local news outlet and politely request a correction.

Permission to circulate or use any or all of this report is granted, provided my credit and contact information is included.

Alan Korwin, Author Gun Laws of America

Bloomfield Press, 4718 E. Cactus #440 • Phoenix, AZ 85032 • 602-996-4020 • alan@gunlaws.com • http://www.gunlaws.com • "We publish the gun laws."

LOTS OF NEW MATERIAL UP AT: GUNLAWS.COM

GUN SHOW BILL IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY

http://www.gunlaws.com/McCainLieberman.htm Mass media publicity on the proposed McCain-Lieberman Gun Show Bill is grossly inaccurate. It's really about federal registration of gun shows, vendors, and every person who attends. Detailed analysis in plain English.

GUN SHOW BILL IS EVEN WORSE

http://www.gunlaws.com/evenworse.htm Could Close Gun Shows Completely If anyone at a gun show offers (not even sells, but offers) a gun to anyone else at the show -- even a gun they don't have with them -- the seller, buyer, AND gun show operator can be arrested. You don't even need a prohibited possessor (a criminal) involved. No operator will run a show with that kind of legal risk. Full plain-English descriptions, with citations.

SHOULD CONGRESS CLOSE DOWN GUN SHOWS?

http://www.gunlaws.com/McCainLieberman2.htm

The McCain-Lieberman bill practically requires gun-show closures -- but they're not mentioning it, and the media doesn't know it. Here is a Letter to the Editor, a short and sweet summary, that you can mail yourself to wake up your local reporters.

WILL BUREAUCRATS CLOSE TONTO FOREST TO THE PUBLIC?

http://www.gunlaws.com/TontoClose.htm

Federal bureaucrats running the Tonto National Forest (2.9 million acres of public land basically north of Phoenix) are talking about closing sections to public access. One of the main goals is to eliminate outdoor marksmanship.

BATF PROVES GUN LAWS WORK

http://www.gunlaws.com/batf prove gun laws work.htm

Stunning enforcement refutes "loophole" phobia Sting puts teeth back in dozens of forgotten critical laws The top of the Sunday paper proclaimed: "Sting Targets Gun Shows" Here's what was missing.

RANDOM GUNFIRE ON THE RISE

http://www.gunlaws.com/ShannonsLaw.htm

Is Media Reporting Accurate?

Arizona Gun Safety Forum On April 21, 2001

http://www.gunlaws.com/gun safety forum.htm

"To help dispel ignorance and bigotry about firearms, and to explore their beneficial purposes" Unite To Promote Gun Safety

THE VIRGINIA GUN OWNER’S GUIDE V UPDATE4

http://www.gunlaws.com/vgogup.htm

Changes to Edition 3 that appear in Edition 4 Virginia's gun laws grew in 2000 by 6.7%, to a total of 36,486 words. All the changes and a list of the bills and statutes affected are included in the update.

THE LIBERTY POLL

http://www.gunlaws.com/the liberty poll.htm

Rewrites the book on questions for political candidates -- Try a few of these next time you're in earshot of a politician. A collaborative effort by Alan Korwin, Mike Anthony, Vin Suprynowicz.

DOES LOOPHOLE ALLOW GUN SALES WITHOUT “NICS” CHECK?

http://www.gunlaws.com/escapeclause.htm

"Escape Clause" Was Designed For FBI Computer Failure Federal Suspension of Bill of Rights Runs 4 Days

ARIZONA

http://www.gunlaws.com/agog19.htm

Gun law grew by 6.7% in 1999, with the following laws: 12-714 New For 1999 Lawsuit Protection 12-820.02 Amended In 1999 Qualified Immunity Enhancement 13-1204 Amended In 1999 Aggravated Assault 13-1406 Amended In 1999 Date Rape Drugs 13-3115 Added In 1999 DPS Bullet Lab 13-3116 New For 1999 Body Armor 17-273 New For 1999 Range Protection 33-1368 Amended In 1999 Tenant Rentals A brief preview of the changes for 2000 appear at the end of the 1999

POLITICALLY CORRECT

http://www.gunlaws.com/politicallycorrect.htm

View/print a PDF version

http://www.gunlaws.com/pdf/PCdGlossary.pdf

Click hereto get Adobe's Acrobat PDF reader for free.) We've all talked about how we're losing the war of words in the struggle for our liberties. People who would deny your rights have done a good job of manipulating the language so far. Without even realizing it, you're probably using terms that actually help the people who want to disarm you. Well here comes the cavalry.

TEXAS

http://www.gunlaws.com/tgogup.htm

The Texas legislature enacted 27 different bills in 1999 that effected the state's gun laws. I've finished the massive job of detecting and describing them, from the more than 1,500 bills that passed. An updated 4th Edition of the well known "Texas Gun Owner's Guide" contains all the changes and is being released this week (2/7/00). A free summary of the update is available on the web, click "Position Papers and Updates" at http://www.gunlaws.com. Here's the list of bills: HB 436 - Trespass on agricultural land HB 525 - U. S. Forest Service authority HB 592 - Instructor background checks HB 635 - Taking weapon from peace officer HB 668 - Street gangs HB 690 - Criminal mischief penalties HB 957 - Conditions for arming deputies HB 998 - Burglary includes assault HB 1265 - Carry on Superfund site penalty HB 1269 - Detention of armed delinquents HB 1428 - "Restrain" redefined HB 1933 - CHL mental check and fees HB 2231 - Rail-car burglary definitions HB 2825 - Antique, curio, relic and black powder arms HB 2869 - Probation conditions for kids with guns HB 3517 - Sanction levels for armed juveniles SB 24 - Repetitious assault on family SB 43 - Reporting gunshot wounds SB 50 - Protective order gun and ammo notification SB 93 - Gun-free assisted living facilities SB 131 - Hospital 51 sign exemption SB 152 - Escape by juveniles SB 370 - DPS statistics on CHL SB 404 - Peace officer CHL after retirement SB 717 - Conditions for government lawsuits against gun companies SB 1368 - Technical corrections, overhaul of Chapter 411 (CHL law) SB 1558 - Criminal trespass includes aircraft; HCR 57 - ChildrenÕs Firearm Safety Week. MEET AUTHOR ALAN KORWIN AT: The Texas State Rifle Association ANNUAL MEETING February 25 - 27, 2000 Omni Richardson Hotel Richardson, Texas For info call TSRA at: 972-889-8772 Extra hot ---- "Licensed to Carry" by Greg Jeffery

A 30-State ‘Shall Issue’ Carry-License Guide

http://www.gunlaws.com/books2.htm

If you want to know what it takes to get licensed in all 30 "shall issue" states, get this book. Author Greg Jeffery produced this incredibly detailed report to compare Missouri's proposed carry law (remember "Proposition B" last year?) to all the other states. In the process he learned they were oddly lucky to see Prop B fail, because it would have been the most restrictive license nationally. He says they'll have a better draft bill next time around. Covers each state's requirements for eligibility, background checks, training requirements, permitted weapons, permit forms, waiting periods, reciprocity, penalty for unlicensed carry, applicant qualifications, places where carry is prohibited, who issues the license, what it costs, renewal fees and much more. See how your state stacks up. Packed with charts and graphs, it even includes stats on the number of licenses issued and revoked. The only other thing you'll need is a travel agent. This book is extra fine. For more info, or to get a copy,

take a peek at our books

http://www.gunlaws.com/books.htm

VIRGINIA

http://www.gunlaws.com/vgogup.htm

The legislature was busy in 1998 and 1999, increasing gun law 4.4% and 5.8% respectively, to a new total of 34,184 words. The new 3rd edition of "The Virginia Gun Owner's Guide" contains all the changes, and the update list is now available for anyone interested, numbered to match the prior edition of the guide. See ”Position Papers and Updates

http://www.gunlaws.com/updates.htm

ARIZONA

http://www.gunlaws.com/agogup.htm

The new state reciprocity list is posted, along with some thoughts about the whole concept of having reciprocity -- instead of what you might recall we used to have -- Second Amendment rights. See Position Papers and Updates

New State Guides Available

http://www.gunlaws.com/books2.htm

We have obtained a supply of gun law guides for -- NEW JERSEY NEW MEXICO NEW YORK TENNESSEE UTAH WASHINGTON STATE to see them

Do you know of a gun-law guide for another state? Please let us know

mailto:alan@gunlaws.com too!

FEDERAL

http://www.gunlaws.com/gloaup.htm

Federal gun law grew by 5.75% in 1998 to a total of 88,584 words (nothing changed in 1999). Most people have never heard about any of this. Now posted in plain English, ready for download. The new 3rd edition of "Gun Laws of America" contains all the statute language, and the committee report text, plus the "gists" posted here. See Position Papers and Updates

SHANNON’S LAW

http://www.gunlaws.com/ShannonsLaw.htm

Arizona is wrestling with a classic case of a feel-good do-nothing law that tramples the rights of honest people while doing nothing to stop the crime it pretends to address. National implications here, especially if the excellent alternative proposal, a tax credit for firearms training, takes hold and passes instead. See SHANNON’S LAW

THE BYRNE GRANT

http://www.gunlaws.com/ByrneGrant.htm

Contains all the details on obtaining federal grant money for training the public in marksmanship and the safe use and handling of guns. See Position Papers and Updates

THE BIG LIE

http://www.gunlaws.com/BigLie.htm

What do you say to people who tell you the Second Amendment doesn't protect your rights (as it always used to)? This editorial has been widely published by newspapers and flew the email circuit; it is available for download and sets the facts straight. Show it to revisionists who would disembowel rights Americans have always had, and ask them to personally volunteer for "the citizen's gun-free pledge," instead of trying to disarm you. See Position Papers and Updates

NICS CLOSES GUN STORES MORE THAN 8 DAYS

http://www.gunlaws.com/brady8day.htm

Gun sales nationwide have been shut down for more than eight days by the FBI; they blame the computer for this abrogation of your rights. Get news about the National Instant Background Check you won't see in the papers or on TV.

THE ONLY QUESTION ABOUT GUN REGISTRATION

http://www.gunlaws.com/gunreggie.htm

The "common-sense" proposal to list America's gun owners overlooks a simple but crucial point -- how would writing down my name, or your name, help stop crime? Before enormous fortunes are spent on making national lists of innocent people, these issues must be examined. Read this compelling, researched editorial, and perhaps decide to send it to the media in your town. See Position Papers and Updates

http://www.gunlaws.com/updates.htm

This update has been brought to you by: Alan Korwin BLOOMFIELD PRESS "We publish the gun laws." 4718 E. Cactus #440 Phoenix, AZ 85032 Phone 602-996-4020 FAX 602-494-0679 Orders 1-800-707-4020

www.gunlaws.com

http://www.gunlaws.com/index.htm

At the risk of sounding too mercenary, people like yourself who think deeply about these subjects would likely benefit from and enjoy a copy of my book "Gun Laws of America," now in its fully revised third edition (1999). You can look at it HERE

http://www.gunlaws.com/gloa.htm

But wait, why should I apologize? I believe in free markets, private ownership of property and capitalism!! If you're fighting for your rights and it leaves you broke, maybe you could be doing a better job somehow!! (The antis have no compunction about raising money for their cause.) ----------------------------------------------

Of all the deaths caused by crime, accident, disaster and maniacs, they hold a distant back seat to the murders and atrocities committed against people by governments. "No nation has the right to keep and bear arms unless its people have the right to keep and bear arms."

--Alan Korwin

Only the rulers should be armed. --U.N. agenda --------------------------

"After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it." --William Burroughs, 1992

GUNS ARE FOR SAFETY

GUNS STOP CRIME

GUNS SAVE LIVES


TOPICS: Announcements; Government
KEYWORDS: banglist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-78 next last

1 posted on 12/09/2001 7:08:54 PM PST by CHICAGOFARMER (lawjj2@allways.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: CHICAGOFARMER
Seems like a great post, but every link that I tried is broken!
2 posted on 12/09/2001 7:16:47 PM PST by Fixit
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CHICAGOFARMER; *bang_list

Buy a Gun Today before its too late!
3 posted on 12/09/2001 7:22:46 PM PST by Khepera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CHICAGOFARMER
As usual, it's all about making the federal government bigger. At this point, many of the idiots who support this bill probably aren't after information about gun owners as much as they just want their state or district to get part of the contract for the new bureaucrats who will manage this information. Given what McCain usually does, I'm surprised that he hasn't yet asked for ground troops.

WFTR
Bill

4 posted on 12/09/2001 7:27:11 PM PST by WFTR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CHICAGOFARMER
Thanks for the heads up.

Merry Christmas, and God Bless!

5 posted on 12/09/2001 7:41:32 PM PST by MileHi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CHICAGOFARMER
The Congress won't shy away from passing unconstitutional law, look at question # 5 on the fed firearm sale form"
"are you a fugitive from justice"
a blatant violation of the 5th amendment, so what else is new?
6 posted on 12/09/2001 7:50:50 PM PST by TJFLSTRAT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CHICAGOFARMER
Just curious...waddya think? If handguns were illegal and if possession were made a felony...would we see a long term reduction in urban shootings?

I live in the Chicago suburbs and find it hard to believe that handguns are good for anything other than murder. I've heard the argument that if handguns were illegal, only criminals would possess them. I say stiffen the penalty and eliminate the handgun altogether. When was the last time that you hear of the Crips or Gaylords doing a drive-by with a rifle?

Flame away!

7 posted on 12/09/2001 8:06:40 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: spanky_mcfarland
Just curious...waddya think? If handguns were illegal and if possession were made a felony...would we see a long term reduction in urban shootings?

I can't believe you actually THINK it much less post it. do you REALLY think criminals will put down or turn in their guns? The answer to your question is as it as always been shown to be - crime will DRASTICALLY go UP. Once the law-abiding are stripped of their ability to protect themselves - the criminals will come out like cockroaches after the lights go out - robbery, rape, murder, all of it will skyrocket - all the while Hitlery & company will tell us how much "safer" we are, of course.
8 posted on 12/09/2001 8:13:31 PM PST by GussiedUp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: spanky_mcfarland
Criminals take the path of least resistance around whatever restrictions are in place. There are ample penalties for possession of a firearm by a felon or its use in the commission of a crime.

I'm too burned out to substantiate this; check out GunCite and FR mail me if you have any more questions.
9 posted on 12/09/2001 8:55:05 PM PST by Djarum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: GussiedUp
Handguns are for concealment and murder...not self defense. Think large scale here (if you can) if handguns were completely removed from circulation, armed robbery, drive by shooting, and home invasion would be a whole lot more difficult to pull off.

Also, any gun owner worth his/her salt would much rather defend the homestead with a 12 gauge than some pimp-ass handgun.

Dare a retort?

10 posted on 12/09/2001 9:01:32 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: spanky_mcfarland; *bang_list
Murder is already a felony ... what makes you think that someone willing to commit murder won't do it with an illegal handgun?

By taking away the legal ability to use handguns, you merely ensure that the small, weak, and infirm, will be defenseless against stronger or multiple attackers. If that's your utopia - why don't you go to one of the fine places where guns are illegal?

When you have second thoughts, you might try going to Vermont, where you don't even need a permit to carry concealed handguns. Question: Where's the gun crime higher? In your neighborhood where it's already illegal to carry handguns, or in VT where anyone may?

11 posted on 12/09/2001 9:04:27 PM PST by coloradan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: spanky_mcfarland
Handguns are for concealment and murder...not self defense. ... Dare a retort?

If handguns are for murder, why do the police carry them? Is this so they can just go kill people? If that's true, then why do they also carry shotguns and/or rifles in their car?

12 posted on 12/09/2001 9:06:10 PM PST by coloradan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Djarum
I own eight firearms and none of them are handguns. Handguns are made for concealment and murder. I'd like to see handgun possession made a felony and every (non-police and non-military) handgun removed from circulation.

As stated in my earlier post...no self respecting gun owner would rather defend his/her home using a pimp-ass handgun rather than a big 'ol 12gauge.

13 posted on 12/09/2001 9:10:27 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: coloradan
"If handguns are for murder, why do the police carry them? Is this so they can just go kill people? If that's true, then why do they also carry shotguns and/or rifles in their car?"

It's an example of unnecessary escalation...police carry them in order to level the playing field. If everyone on the street is allowed to conceal carry, how would an orderly society survive with the authorities subscribing to a different set of rules.

Again, my point is that the handgun exists solely for the purpose of concealment and murder. The criminalization and TOTAL elimination of this scourge will promote a more orderly society without limiting an individuals right to protect their home with a weapon suitable for home defense (such as a shotgun).

14 posted on 12/09/2001 9:26:31 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: spanky_mcfarland
Britain has the restrictions you suggest, and more of a problem with home invasion than the U.S(1).

Handgun possession most often is a felony for those carrying without permission, or even with permission but intent to use it unlawfully. Handguns are made for sport and lethal defense, not murder.
15 posted on 12/09/2001 9:26:35 PM PST by Djarum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: spanky_mcfarland
Handguns are made for concealment and murder.

This is why single women carry them when they walk in questionable neighborhoods? Just to kill people?

I'd like to see handgun possession made a felony and every (non-police and non-military) handgun removed from circulation.

So, you're for confiscation. Well, then. I guess you're one of those ones the "gun nuts" have been telling us about: you're one of those who really does want to take our guns away.

As stated in my earlier post...no self respecting gun owner would rather defend his/her home using a pimp-ass handgun rather than a big 'ol 12gauge.

Since when is the government supposed to be in the business of legislating away pimp-ass things?

Imagine that you lived in a place where printers were illegal. Felonies, in fact. Also imagine that the government had printing shops that produced books on all sorts of topics - essentially about anything that you could possibly want to know about. But also suppose that there were a few subjects that you couldn't learn about from government books - say, how to launder money, or make drugs or bombs, or anthrax. It would seem quite possible that the few people willing to break the law by having illegal printers would not waste their time printing books on how to water roses or truss chicken. No, it's much more likely that they'll print things you can't find elsewhere - all these horrible, illegal things that the government doesn't want you to know about.

Would you imagine that the people who live in this land would support private ownership of printers? After all, not only are they illegal in themselves - they're only used to commit crimes by printing illegal materials, as well.

You have identified yourself as a resident near Chicago. Please consider the possibility that the only uses you have ever known or heard of, for handguns, are criminal uses, employed by criminals, and that this is why you think they should be banned. If you go to some of the other 99% of the country that isn't Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, New York City or Baltimore, you would find that 99% of handguns are used self-defense for non-criminal people, and also in hunting, target shooting, collections, and so forth. Would someone in the hypothetical land above reconsider their ban on printers when they see that others, who live elsewhere, also use them for non-criminal purposes?

The gun bans in Chicago didn't work to control crime there - please do not inflict these same failed prohibitions on the rest of the country.

16 posted on 12/09/2001 9:33:44 PM PST by coloradan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: spanky_mcfarland
The scourge is of murderers, not the implements of murder. A shotgun or rifle can be concealed after a few minutes under a hacksaw.
17 posted on 12/09/2001 9:34:32 PM PST by Djarum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: spanky_mcfarland
It's an example of unnecessary escalation...police carry them in order to level the playing field. If everyone on the street is allowed to conceal carry, how would an orderly society survive with the authorities subscribing to a different set of rules.

Vermont refutes this claim: you don't even need a permit to carry a handgun there - if you are legal to buy a firearm, you may also buy a holster, ammo, and extra mags, fit them, load the gun, tuck it under your sweater and walk past the on-duty policeman on your way out. And he won't stop you because it's legal. Please look into the crime rates there, and also the tendency of Vermonters to get in shootouts with police, before continuing with your claim above.

The criminalization and TOTAL elimination of this scourge will promote a more orderly society without limiting an individuals right to protect their home with a weapon suitable for home defense (such as a shotgun).

1. Are you familiar with the alcohol prohibition? How well did it work? Why was it discontinued? 2. How are people supposed to defend themselves when they are not at home? Are they supposed to make do with a shotgun there too? Or are they supposed to be legally disarmed and defenseless, like the passengers, in the plane that slammed into the World Trade Center, were?

18 posted on 12/09/2001 9:40:48 PM PST by coloradan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Djarum
"Handguns are made for sport...

If you lived in a major metro (as do I) you'd likely see daily headlines showing the type of "sport" that really goes on.

19 posted on 12/09/2001 9:41:31 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: spanky_mcfarland
I do live in a metro area where handguns are often used in illegal acts by individuals with no respect for life. In prison these same people will tear tin cans into cutting instruments to slash another's throat, yet soda is not murder.
20 posted on 12/09/2001 9:46:24 PM PST by Djarum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-78 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson