Posted on 10/24/2020 11:04:08 AM PDT by CaptainPhilFan
I’d say that depends on how useable the old equipment is. Are the pipes delivering adequate pressure? Are the outflow going down allright? Stacks allowing proper flow? What condition is the sewer connection in? Galvanized pipes in hard water areas may be like clogged arteries. What kind of water conditions does your area have? Have you mixed pipes? Galvanized and copper? That can cause problems. Trees near your sewage lines?
Electrical: are the recepicals all properly grounded so modern equipment will work properly with them? Are there enough outlets in each room for a modern family life? Or is the 1950 code of one receptical per room or wall with a duplex going to be acceptable? Are the enough recepticals in your entertainment room for all your entertainment devices, BigScreenTV, Cable, Blu-ray player, Surroundsound, etc. (I’ve always found there are never enough!) How about your office/computer area? Are the kitchen recepticals sufficient for your needs in this day of multiple kitchen gadgets? How about bathrooms? Are kitchen, bathroom, and laundry room GFI’d properly? What condition is your service panel? Circuit Breaker of fuse? How many circuits per breaker/fuse? Do things in the house dim when the vacuum cleaner is turned on? Do circuits blow when too many devices get used at the same time in various rooms? Too many rooms on one circuit? Is the whole house still grounded? Where? How? Do you smell anything hot? Enquiring Freepers want to know.
You didn’t mention a basement. Does it leak? Any cracks in the walls? A very expensive fix if there are cracks. That may require excavating the earth around your foundation, patching the external basement wall, waterproofing, installing a weep trench and line, and re-doing the slope of your landscaping to lead the water away from your house. If it requires doing around the entire perimeter, that can be upwards of $40,000. Let’s hope no cracks or only in a small area. . . Or small cracks which can be ameliorated from the inside.
What did your inspector say about the condition of the roof? When was it replaced and how many roofs are on there? What type?
Those questions establish what is required or not.
Upgrades are not required.
Obviously, you’ve never seen the show. Mike Holmes is not an initial home inspector. He’s a General Contractor with 30 plus years of experience called in by home owners who did their due diligence and HAD an inspection before they BOUGHT their house, but things have started going seriously awry after they’ve moved in, sometimes up to two or three years post purchase, and are often regretting the purchase because they were not told of the deficiencies they are experiencing. He starts with the writing report from the original inspection. He does a full inspection on their authority to find what was missed, he will then fix any damage he does in the inspection, when he takes down sheet rock, pokes a hole in a ceiling, etc. He then fixes what he finds, now matter what it is, it on HIS DIME. . . He’s fixed problems that cost up to $400,000. Things that were missed by the initial inspection. Some are really obvious.
Holmes has had programs for a couple of dozen years. It’s pretty obvious they are not “set ups”. Ordinary people write to him relating the problems they’ve had. Some get selected to get their houses fixed. No one goes in to install problems. He’s done it for charities, too.
One, I think, they wound up razing the house and building a new one from scratch, it was that bad. He’s just an expert at doing this.
He used to have a show where he’d fix up the FUBARs do-it-yourself remodelers had gotten themselves into. Holmes Makes it Right. You should have seen some of the FUBARS. They’d blown through their budgets and had no way out. He’d come in, fix it.
He has another show called Holmes & Holmes in which he and his son are partners which find and buy mid to high end homes to fix up and then sell. He shows how to do it right, not just the quick flip most people do. The first season of Holmes & Holmes was the two of them redoing his son’s itty-bitty two bedroom one bath house into a two story four bedroom two-and half bath house with more than twice the square footage on the same footprint so his son could get married.
That being said, they generally go for the open-concept, which I’m not crazy about either, because that’s what sells. Give me a nice Prairie Style bungalow or anything in Art Deco and I’m happy.
Excuse me, I used the wrong word. I should have asked: "Did your inspector look for asbestos?" There are red flags for asbestos in the US that any inspector knows to look for. 9x9 floor tiles - 95% were made with asbestos; heating duct pipes that are clad in gray cement like material - those are likely asbestos; popcorn ceiling finishes made before 1974 - asbestos content extremely high; some radiant heating units - likely contained asbestos insulation; granulated ceiling insulation - high asbestos content. Some building products such as gypsum board 2x4 sheets were mixed with asbestos as was plaster and taping mud. Sanding and drilling walls made with these older products is a risk. All of these require no testing except observation and flagging as potential risks that a buyer should be notified could be an expensive mitigation cost.
In Virginia, it’s obvious inspection is hamstrung, but in other areas, inspectors can take samples of suspect materials and have quick inexpensive presumptive tests done on them. If those are positive, then more testing is strongly indicated.
I learned a lot of this when I was the foreman of my county’s criminal grand jury and we had several criminal asbestos disposal cases involving a hospital administration deliberately hiding the fact that the in-house renovation of their surgery suites were completely contaminated with asbestos materials, including the 2x4 gypsum board walls, mud, piping, etc, and they were doing demolition right next to in-use surgery bays which were not air tight and were getting white demolition dust WHILE surgeries were taking place, falling on doctors, nurses, and in patients.
They’d hired itinerant labor to do the demolition who had no experience and used no personal protection gear. The administrators, who had been told what the walls contained by the hospital maintenance administrator (he’d have nothing to do with their cockamamie in-house renovation plan, wanting it to be put out for bid... he was the whistleblower on this whole thing—he was on vacation when they began and blew the whistle on his return) were coming at night and burying the contaminated panels under other debris in the dumpsters so it couldn’t be recognized by anyone knowledgeable as to what kind of panels they were... all so they could save the mitigation cost of having it removed properly and safely by trained professionals! Instead, it cost them their jobs, their medical licenses, prison sentences, lots of workers comp claims, and the hospital millions of dollars in lawsuits from patients who had surgeries while the renovations were being done. Need I tell you these guys were progressives, heavily into Democrat politics in the County?
Buy the house that is in the condition you want, it will always be less.
YOU are not going to live in that house. CaptainPhilfan is.
You are not there. You have not tested the pressure of the water nor the per minute flow. You have not seen how long or how well the bathtub drains or the toilets flush. You have not heard if there are water/air hammers in the plumbing every time someone turns on a tap. You have not tested to find out how long it takes to get hot water to the shower or to the kitchen sink. You DON’T KNOW, so you cannot make a judgment call as blanket as "Upgrades are not required."
The same holds true for the A/C. you have not tested the air flows and temperatures delivered to the various rooms, nor have you audited the cost of heating and cooling that house with 30 year old equipment compared to doing the same with modern far more efficient equipment. There’s a world of cost savings that might make a huge difference. The local utility may subsidize the upgrade or even pay for it outright. You might be surprised if you’re taking a net energy waster off line.
I work in facilities, and spend a great deal of time contracting work, solely in commercial retail and office buildings.
Plan for $55k, based on what information you’ve given.
$10k for HVAC - There can be all kinds of ductwork modifications, and I don’t know whether this is a split system heat pump, or a rooftop package system. $10k for that size of a home should be ok.
$20k Electrical. The actual Electrical work will probably be around $15k, but gaining access to install it will cause removal and replacement of finish work. In fact, it could cost more than the electrical.
$20 k Plumbing. Again, the actual plumbing may be around $10k, but access, up to and including saw cutting, tile removal/ replacement is also going to eat up significant $$.
Drainage is difficult to figure, given the lack of topography information. Some homes just shouldn’t have been located where the end up, places like natural depressions that will always flood. Assuming there’s a low elevation somewhere away from the house, and within the property line, which allows drain off, a regrading of simple soil/turf really shouldn’t be too much. $5k give or take.
A lot of folks would say walk away - But the heart wants what it wants. I would ask for an entire $50k reduction in the selling price and tell your broker you’re open to counter offer. If you get $40k off, You could probably break even, or at least self justify the added burden, given the location that you seem to like. Otherwise, it’s the Titanic. Worse, you’d be getting ripped off.
An evaluation sometimes depends too much on “comps”, but those other homes don’t need damned near a full rebuild. If the are comps are $50k higher than what you’ve seen locally, you might consider accepting $25k off the home price.
I’m not a licensed contractor, but I’ve contracted and supervised millions of dollars in small to medium scale projects. I’ve never come in over budget on a known scope. I have come in over budget of projects where we found problems beyond the scope, but usually not more than 10%.
Since the HVAC is “only” 30 years old (put in in 1990), is it possible the entire house is 30 years old? If that’s the case, at least some of the wiring and plumbing may be salvageable. Rather than ask for quotes for “replacing” the wiring, heating, and plumbing systems, try for a quote for simply making these systems “safe and long lasting”. Even electrical and plumbing systems from half a century ago can be made “safe and long lasting”. Your house doesn’t have to meet current deign practices, only those from when it was built. You may only need a new heat pump, and consolidation of the old and new electrical panel. As for the drainage, is there water in the basement? If not, what’s causing the description that it needs to be changed?
“He’s a General Contractor “
Who puts down home inspectors using methods home inspectors are not allowed to use.
Through in a new copper rough while you are at it.
“Some building products such as gypsum board 2x4 sheets were mixed with asbestos as was plaster and taping mud. Sanding and drilling walls made with these older products is a risk. All of these require no testing except observation and flagging as potential risks that a buyer should be notified could be an expensive mitigation cost.”
LOL! Behind the paint which may contain lead. Not observable, not inspected.
“Are the enough recepticals in your entertainment room for all your entertainment devices, BigScreenTV, Cable, Blu-ray player,”
Have the seller through in acoustic walls and ceiling. You don’t want to get headaches.
“A lot of folks would say walk away - But the heart wants what it wants. I would ask for an entire $50k reduction in the selling price”
A lot of what you want is already built into the existing price.
I can’t believe idiots through out numbers having never seen the house, contract or inspection report.
“As for the drainage, is there water in the basement? If not, what’s causing the description that it needs to be changed?”
The last house I bought had a ‘drainage’ problem. A little dirt and some river rock fixed it.
Contractor wanted $6k. My cost less than $150.
“$10k for HVAC - There can be all kinds of ductwork modifications, and I don’t know whether this is a split system heat pump, or a rooftop package system. $10k for that size of a home should be ok.”
You really expect the seller to upgrade the whole f* house?
Do you bid based on what some dude on the internet says needs to be done?
“nor have you audited the cost of heating and cooling that house “
Good thinking. Have the seller through in insulating the whole house. New thermal barriers.
While we are at it negotiate for new doors and windows. I would suggest the triple pane. Will also help with noise from outside.
“$20k Electrical. The actual Electrical work will probably be around $15k, but gaining access to install it will cause removal and replacement of finish work. In fact, it could cost more than the electrical.”
Then better to ask for $30k off. Make it $35 so you can get the whole interior repainted.
After careful review of posts here I would suggest that the buyer request the seller pay him $20k to take it off his hands.
Plus add a penalty clause in the contract for unknown future concerns related to bad neighbors and poorly executed no-knock raids.
House built in 1950? Guaranteed some paint contains lead, especially door and window trim. Lead was the prime means of making white pigmented enamel paint and lighter color enamel paint. Lead paints started being phased out in the late 60s until lead was finally banned from paint in 1978. Unless it’s been mitigated since lead was recognized as a child hazard, it’s still there, likely under multiple coats of repainting. The report should at least mention that fact. Heck, our new house built in 2005 had boiler plate including potential lead paint warning in Utah because who knows what previous owners may have added.
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