Earth's surface 'lurches 11ft to the right' as New Zealand earthquake rips new faultline

Mail Online ^ | 9/6/2010 | Daily Mail

[wideawake]

It has nothing to do with heritage but culture. We know what we are taught, and we are formed by the example and instruction of our parents, as they were in turn. None of blinked into existence as a fully-formed sui generis adult.

[wideawake]

That’s completely wrong, Woodman. New Zealand began as part of NSW and was completely ungoverned for the first 50 years of its existence as a British territory. There were no penal colonies or British military presence at all, just communities of whalers and other sailors. It was not until 1832 that the British government had any presence on the islands and not until the 1850s that there was any permanent military presence. Organized colonial activity began with the New Zealand Company and 9000 paying colonists who freely emigrated, and founded four free colonies starting in 1842. Penal transportation was abolished in 1868, had not been used on a mass scale since 1850 and was never a part of NZ life.

[tanknetter]

The US state of Georgia also began as a penal colony, but only a tiny percentage of its white inhabitants were prisoners.

Thanks for the info! I knew about Georgia, because that's where another branch of my family went (my branch, at least from my paternal grandfather's side, were millwrights and therefore better off than the other branches ... and didn't show up here in the US until the early 1920s.) That branch is mostly out in Utah now, having become Mormons.

[DemonDeac]

“
Question: how many of the early New Zealand English settlers were convicts (really just guilty of minor crimes when Mother England decided to clear out her underclass) sentenced to transport, and therefore had no say in their decision to emigrate? I know a good portion of Australian’s were (including the branch of my family that ended up there).”

None. It was settled for very different reasons.

[Woodman]

It wasn't a direct part of New Zealand life because the convicts sent to New Zealand and Tasmania were considered Hard Core and were incarcerated. I understand that there were free colonies in New Zealand and I was going from memory from my Australian History classes (many years ago). I'm unsure percentages of population, but in the early British era there were hard core criminals and military running the prisons on NZ.

[ichabod1]

Isn’t that one of the key themes of the story? And when they refused to go up into the Promise Land, the Lord made them wander the desert for forty years, until they got their minds right.

[aruanan]

And when they refused to go up into the Promise Land, the Lord made them wander the desert for forty years, until they got their minds right.

No, they had to wander the desert for forty years until all those who had rebelled and refused to enter the Promised Land the first time were dead.

[hal ogen]

So. Probably all of us have “a heritage of slavery and dependency” somewhere in our extended backgrounds. So what? Hey...Haitians, get off your asses and get to work fixing your country, your families, your system and so forth. No one is going to do it for you, you laggards.

[ichabod1]

I’m just saying that the tendency of the Jews was to do just what you’ve described regarding Haiti, but the Lord would not allow them to do that. I think it’s a very interesting commentary on what people are like coming out of slavery, and I’ve never thought of it that way before.

[wideawake]

Actually, most white Americans come from cultures with long traditions of independence and freedom, and their ancestors came to the USA because new political developments or disasters threatened those freedoms.

[ml/nj]

The Hebrews were miraculously liberated from slavery by direct divine intervention, led by divinely appointed prophets to their own ancestral homeland and given a full set of laws and institutions by God himself. The Haitians have not had these benefits.

I think you left out a bit of the history. The "Hebrews" were overrun by the Romans and most of what was in their "ancestral homeland" was destroyed. As recently as the mid-19th century there was next to nothing there as can be seen by reading Mark Twain's account in Innocents Abroad. Things are different today. The people did that.

ML/NJ

[rabidralph]

Isn’t Israel a socialist country, based on the way they operate?

[aruanan]

I think it’s a very interesting commentary on what people are like coming out of slavery, and I’ve never thought of it that way before.

You mean, when faced with uncertainty and a life different from what they were used to, they remembered only the good times

"If only we had meat to eat! 5 We remember the fish we ate in Egypt at no cost—also the cucumbers, melons, leeks, onions and garlic. 6 But now we have lost our appetite; we never see anything but this manna!"

and wanted to go back where they were slaves

All the Israelites grumbled against Moses and Aaron, and the whole assembly said to them, "If only we had died in Egypt! Or in this desert! 3 Why is the LORD bringing us to this land only to let us fall by the sword? Our wives and children will be taken as plunder. Wouldn't it be better for us to go back to Egypt?" 4 And they said to each other, "We should choose a leader and go back to Egypt."

As a result:

20 The LORD replied, "I have forgiven them, as you asked. 21 Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the LORD fills the whole earth, 22 not one of the men who saw my glory and the miraculous signs I performed in Egypt and in the desert but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times- 23 not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their forefathers. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it.

'As surely as I live, declares the LORD, I will do to you the very things I heard you say: 29 In this desert your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me. 30 Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun. 31 As for your children that you said would be taken as plunder, I will bring them in to enjoy the land you have rejected. 32 But you—your bodies will fall in this desert. 33 Your children will be shepherds here for forty years, suffering for your unfaithfulness, until the last of your bodies lies in the desert. 34 For forty years—one year for each of the forty days you explored the land—you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you.' 35 I, the LORD, have spoken, and I will surely do these things to this whole wicked community, which has banded together against me. They will meet their end in this desert; here they will die."
--Numbers 14

[Woodman]

WideAwake, I did some further research, and I realized I am wrong. I think I mixed up in my head what was going on in Norfolk Island with NZ because of the way they were both administered from New South Wales. I could of sworn that there was a settlement like Port Arthur Tasmania in NZ, but it must be Norfolk Island I remember from my Australian History classes.

[agere_contra]

You have a point.

If you spring from a culture born to freedom, you tend to mirror that. If you spring from some culture born to slavery or dependence, you tend to mirror that too.

Case in point, and it's a sensitive one, but here goes.

The prevalent African-American culture in the USA is a toxic culture, based on entitlement, affirmative action and race-envy.

Children who grow up in that culture tend to adopt its toxic elements. They have free will, and they have ways out of that culture. Nevertheless they have to work hard if they want to beat it. They have to do work that e.g. Whites and Asians don't have to do.

Also: your Government offers them heavy enticements to fail. Diversity hires, affirmative action, the 'soft bigotry of low expectations'. These are like the free rice offloaded onto the Haitians: they undermine and distort meritocratic rewards.

Most of us don't have to deal with that. So, yes, we shouldn't pat ourselves on the back. We really don't know the burden they're carrying.

Neither - of course - should we affirm that people with non-meritocratic backgrounds 'can't help it'. They can leave the plantation, and we can help them - simply by constantly affirming that what they do, and how they get on in life is indeed up to them.

[wideawake]

The Jews who rebuilt Israel were led by an extremely well-educated group of Europeans who had enjoyed freedom and economic independence before the rise of fascism. They were not premodern subsistence farmers who were purchased by Turks and Arabs and involuntarily transported overseas - the founders of the state of Israel were sophisticated and accomplished moderns who voluntarily decided to settle in the land of their ancestors and to provide a refuge for those escaping fascism.

[investigateworld]

I’d live there, but for the fact they suck up to the commonwealth..... and they are too much like Canada.... gov takes care of everything.
(Except to stop the priests from raping little Indian boys)
Sad, but true.

[investigateworld]

I’d live there, but for the fact they suck up to the commonwealth..... and they are too much like Canada.... gov takes care of everything.
(Except to stop the priests from raping little Indian boys)
Sad, but true.

[wideawake]

Excellent post. My larger point is that behavior which is like a second nature to an American is not obvious for Haitians, precisely because of the two nations’ different histories and cultures. This does not mean that Haitians “cannot help” making bad decisions, but that the assumption that the right decision is so obvious to anyone that people who make the wrong one are either stupid or evil or both is an unwarranted one.

[ml/nj]

The rebirth started long before the rise of fascism in Europe. Tel Aviv was founded in 1909. Mos of the people who came to "Palestine" in the late 19th and early 20th century may not have started out as farmers, but they quickly became farmers.

ML/NJ