[ToryHeartland]

I've been lurking long enough on FR to have seen a number of threads on this topic (often generating far more heat than light), but remain puzzled about the problems this topic seems to generate. Like other British Conservatives, I look to the United States as our one great ally and the world's greatest defender of liberty, but I do not understand why such an enlightened nation is embroiled in a senseless science vs. religion turmoil--and even more puzzled that some whom on other issues I recognise as fellow conservatives are, on this topic, so vehement in their assault on science. I, and many, many others here are staunch defenders and admirers of America, but when it comes to this controversy over Darwin, we just don't get it. Intelligent explanations of the real issue here would be appreciated!

[The_Victor]

Teaching the idea threatens scientific literacy among schoolchildren, it said.

Teaching children to think critically NEVER threatens literacy. Scientific truth must be vetted against competing eplainations, it is part of the process of arriving at the truth. Creationism is quickly dispelled with scientific evidence, and the showing this in a science classroom is always worth the effort.

[wallcrawlr]

ToryHeartland, ...even more puzzled that some whom on other issues I recognise as fellow conservatives are, on this topic, so vehement in their assault on science.

assaulting science ping

Revelation 4:11Intelligent Design
See my profile for info

[Vaquero]

a would say a majority of us don't get it either but the squeaky wheel makes the most noise and gets the most notice. I and many of my conservative compatriots here in the states have no compunction about following the proven tenants of science.

religion is for church and should remain there.

[doc30]

The principles behind this fight are simple. ID and creation stories aren't taught in science class because they are not science and do not stand up to scientific scrutiny. There are lots of people who choose to try to shout their position to try and get it accepted. When that fails, they try to use what is essentially court ordered intellectual affermative action for their strictly religious constraints that they believe must constrain and supercede science. If it isn't in the Bible, it isn't science to these people. They are taking a tactic right out of the extreme left wing playbook.

[Always Right]

Intelligent explanations of the real issue here would be appreciated!

You have gotten 40 and you have yet to respond.....

[nmh]

WOW, these folks really have brass ones.

It is EVOLUTION that undermines the church!

Evolution has NOTHING in common with Christianity and actually pushes people AWAY from Christianity. The order is ALL WRONG and undermines God, the Fall and His order of events as well as robbing Him of the credit of how and when He created all we see and don't see.

[PatrickHenry]

So that you don't get the impression that the entire conservative movement in the US (and thus the Republican party) is entirely bonkers, please keep in mind certain facts. First, after the stunningly sound anti-creationist decision by a Bush-appointed Republican judge in Kitzmiller et al. v Dover Area School District et al., the voters in that very conservative area demonstrated their commendable revulsion against the ignorant and theocratic school board by tossing them all out of office: Dover boots board. Since then, most Republican officials have been running away from the creationism/ID issue, realizing that it's not a winner on election day.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

I heard an ad this morning from evangelicals urging me to help fight global warming. No evolution message yet.

However, our fight isn't senseless. We don't want to go down the same path that Europe has chosen.

Europe has chosen extinction. Your people have decided that they're not interested in the future and they're not going to reproduce to preserve your culture.

Here in the US, we believe your demise may have something to do with the secularization of your culture and we're trying to avoid it. Even if we're not sure how.

So the crevo wars go on. ;)

[tallhappy]

There are an element that like to use science as a religion with evolution as its centerpiece.

Their inteserst isn't science it is their own form of evangelizing and prosyletizing.

They have the ACLU on their side and are part of the culture war where no mention of religion in public is supposed to happen -- a la the recent so-called "War on Christmas".

They are ironically narrow minded and trying to push their beliefs down the throt of everyone else -- something they would accuse the evil religious right of doing.

Richard Dawkins would be one of their icons or high priests.

Here they form a little cultlike ping group.

What I find amazing is they don't even understand the science.

[pollywog]

bump to read later

[Coyoteman]

"I think as a legal strategy, intelligent design is dead. That does not mean intelligent design as a social movement is dead," said Ms Scott.

How about science? I thought ID was based on science...

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Assault on science? There is no assault on science. There is an assault, however, on free thinking and debate as well as an assault on religion. The nastiness is on the side of the evolutionists who are the most arrogant and unscientific people in the world.

[painter]

Bump for later.

[ml1954]

Intelligent explanations of the real issue here would be appreciated!

The 'real issue' is reason and rationality vs rigid fundamentalist religious dogma. It's been going on since Galileo.

Biblical religious fundamentalists in the US hate the Theory of Evolution because they believe it (and much of science) contradicts and devalues their religious beliefs. They regard it as heresy and the source of many/most, if not all, of the USA's problems (as they see them). And so they are trying to attack and destroy it and control what science can and cannot explore. Sound familiar?

[VOA]

I, and many, many others here are staunch defenders and admirers of
America, but when it comes to this controversy over Darwin, we just
don't get it.

I'm a mushy-middle person on the topic.
But personally, I'd say that the these two views of origins
do have impacts on a person's worldview. And in some cases, their politics.
The question is really which worldview rules:
a materialistic one or a spiritual one.

Actually, you'd get a better glimpse of this by looking for a copy of
the book "The Question of God", written by a Harvard psychiatrist
(Nicolai? Nicolosi?) that used used the character study of Freud and C.S. Lewis
to show the tension between the two camps.

I'm sure some will disagree with this partial explanation, but
I think it gets to at least some of the roots of this suabble. (And yes, a fair number of Christians believe in some version of evolution)

[Theophilus]

senseless science vs. religion turmoil

It's not science vs. religion, it's age old philosophy vs. philosophy.

[F16Fighter]

US scientists have called on mainstream religious communities to help them fight policies that undermine the teaching of evolution.

Of which has NO scientific basis -- ONLY theory.

Of course research grants, the scientific community creating "fact" out of thin air, and it's "religion" of worshipping at the altar of 1950's science-fiction movies is a bit self-serving, isn't it?

[Old Professer]

It all comes from the mistaken notion that each of us is somehow important in the scheme of things; the sooner we get over our love affair with authority and get back to the business of personal survival at whatever cost, the quicker we can rid ourselves of the fools among us. </sarc>

[Binghamton_native]

You state in your post: "Like other British Conservatives, I look to the United States as our one great ally and the world's greatest defender of liberty, but I do not understand why such an enlightened nation is embroiled in a senseless science vs. religion turmoil--and even more puzzled that some whom on other issues I recognise as fellow conservatives are, on this topic, so vehement in their assault on science. I, and many, many others here are staunch defenders and admirers of America, but when it comes to this controversy over Darwin, we just don't get it. Intelligent explanations of the real issue here would be appreciated!"

I think you'll find that the reason this is much more of an issue in the US than in the UK and the rest of Europe is that you are much further along in the post-Christian culture.

[kidd]

There are small groups of Christians who believe that the first couple of chapters of Genesis should be interpretted literally.

Once Genesis is interpretted literally, you can calculate the age of the earth. It is on the order of 6000 years old. Thus, the Bible becomes a history book.

===

There is a small group of atheist scientists who believe that science can be used to disprove God.

They have latched onto the literal interpretation of Genesis and offer evolution as proof that there is no God. They now defend evolution as a fact rather than a theory thats full of holes. Evolution has become the central tenet of their "anti-God" religion.

===

Most of America does not interpret Genesis literally and thinks both groups are very vocal nuts.