Posted on 09/27/2013 2:17:01 PM PDT by ClaytonP
And the pope may uniquely claim infallibility as an individual when speaking in accordance with this criteria.
And nothing you said refutes what i had said.
You can of course disagree with their theology, but according to the rules of the church, what the pope says goes, essentially. Non-catholics, of course, don’t have standing—even if they think they’re reading of the Bible is superior to the Church’s.
What does Bud Selig think of that?
But i was not denying that what the pope says goes, usually, though not always. But which does not mean the veracity of truth claims rests upon the premise of the claimed infallibility of Rome, and make Scripture a subordinate authority, and protect Rome from reproof by it. Under that model the church would not be valid.
Someone is crying fowl (broadly speaking)!
The snark posters blow a lot of smoke because they hope the one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded will be tarred with the same brush as the Methodist, Episcopal, Baptist, Independent, and other "Christian churches". All of those denominations preached the ordination of women was contrary to Scripture only fifty years ago but now are proud of their hundreds of women pastors. Those same churches also once refused to "marry" queers, ordain queers, and that contraption was a sin.
The loud and snarky crowd know it was the same doctrine of Self and Self Alone they profess and defend that led all those "Christian Churches" astray but hope no one will notice that fact.
The Bible teaches that the church is the pillar and bulwark of the faith and the falling away from Christianity in this country has moved in lock step with the spread of the doctrine of Self that claims there is no church other than the individual and no need for one.
Look around at the "most Christian nation in the world" where three quarters or more of the population has always been Protestant. Does the society reflect proper, unchanging, Christian, doctrine steadfast in the face of challenges?
Or, does it reflect the doctrines of men, the doctrine of Self and Self Alone that usurped the authority denominations had when even all Protestant churches taught that there were doctrines beyond individual modification they expected their members to accept and abide by rather than each one making up their own doctrine?
The doctrine of Self and Self Alone puts every individual in charge of deciding for their Self what is right and wrong, good or evil, and they even preach that the murder of infants in the womb is an acceptable exercise of "Christian Liberty" as long as it's done with "contraceptives" rather than invasive procedures.
The anti-Catholic snark crowd preach and teach the exact same Self Worship the hedonist society teaches, they just use different terms and claim God rather than Liberty dictates their views.
Naturally such people want to convince everyone they can that the Catholic Church will soon abandon what it's taught for nearly two thousand years and follow in the footsteps of those who rely on their Self and Self Alone.
Even they recognize how hard it's become to explain away their constant changes of direction in comparison to the Catholic Church teaching today the same things it's taught for nearly two thousand years.
The snarky and loud crowd seem more like raging heathens every day but they're fading fast.
They were once all over the place but now only congregate where they know they can rely on a crooked dealer to deal them their cards.
Absolute garbage.
The Catholic Church tests everything against Scripture and nothing it teaches can contradict Scripture.
LOL!!! Given this Pope it would not surprise me to see him appoint a female Cardinal. He seems to be very unconventional and saying things that seems to be out of the norm of traditional Catholic teaching. Already I don’t know how many articles have been published or how many electronic digits have been sacrificed to tell us what the Pope really meant to say. I wonder if they did their homework when they appointed him.
What will be a hoot is when our Catholic friends trying to justify the Pope appointment of a female Cardinal after they’ve argued against it. All of a sudden it will be a wise decision or they’ll grudgingly accept it. Don’t be surprise to see an article or two on how Mary was actually the first Cardinal. After all, she advised our Lord Jesus to turn the water into wine. That should qualify for something. ;O)
I suppose in the end our Catholic friends will just chalk it up to the Pope infallible wisdom and we’ll hear how this was Church teaching all along. Much like many other things we’re told to believe.
I know Daniel does very well defending his positions on the Catholic Church but since I'm up...
The Church doesn't contradict Scripture (at least so they say). What is far worst is they've added to Scripture.
What would you call a woman Cardinal?
Your Feminence.
The “first Christian communities” were 800 years ago?
That’s a fine non-Catholic or anti-Catholic position, but whether you personally deem the Catholic church to be valid is really not the issue.
Absolute garbage. The Catholic Church tests everything against Scripture and nothing it teaches can contradict Scripture.
That is a very superficial understanding, but Scripture is not the supreme authority for RCs, they are not to engage in objectively examination of it in order to ascertain the veracity of truth claims.
If Rome is the only authority than can define what Scripture consists of (i.e. the canon) and authoritatively tell us what it means, then in effect Rome is the supreme authority, over Scripture. It can be said that nothing it teaches can contradict Scripture, because the only interpretation that has authority is that which she sanctions.
But the church did not begin under the premise that the magisterium of the stewards of Scripture, and the promises, and possessing historical descent, were the infallible interpreters of Scripture. That would be "garbage.
Instead it began in dissent from those who, like Rome, presumed a level of assured veracity, and added to and contradicted Scripture. Which, being the supreme authority, the Lord reproved them by, and established His own claims upon Scriptural substantiation, in word and in power. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc .)
They can do both as Rome is a law unto herself.
So says a Self and Self Alone advocate who believes in starting here
but pretends Self and Self Alone doesn't lead inevitably to this sort of garbage
How can someone in their right mind who claims to believe what Scripture says about the fallen nature of man, claims that Jesus Christ ignored non inspired books being included in the Septuagint Christ Himself quoted from, claims that the Holy Spirit could not and did not protect God's Holy Word from the inclusion of error, swallow the lie that Self and Self Alone is capable of doing what they claim Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit could not do with regard to His Word?
How can the same folks swallow the lie that the Holy Spirit has not guided and protected The One,Holy,Catholic,and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded, the only organization on earth that can trace it's teaching and leadership directly back to the Apostle Peter, the oldest continuously existing organization on earth, an organization that began with Jesus Christ Himself handing authority to the Apostle Peter who Jesus Christ Himself had given a new name just as He gave Abraham a new name, but that the same Holy Spirit they claim is totally incapable of protecting Scripture and the Church Christ Himself established from error, does protect from error the tens of thousands of groups and millions of Self and Self Alone individuals that all disagree with one another and all claim they are the only correct group or individual?
Someone can only fall for that lie if they refuse to accept the Word of God which clearly states that the Church, not the individual, is the pillar and bulwark of the Truth. Refusing to accept His Word opens them to falling for literally the oldest lie in the book, the same lie Eve fell for, the same lie people like Wycliffe and Luther swallowed, the same lie that has led such folks to embrace not only that oldest of all lies but to accepting the heresy of Core and even to throwing portions of God's Holy Word into the garbage.
The strong delusion of Self and Self Alone without fail leads people away from Christ and more often than not ends with either apathy or Self Worship.
I Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness: I Corinthians 1:24 But unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Sad to see so much Catholic bashing.
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