The Writing Is on the Wall: Top NATO Official Says Ukraine Must Cede Territory in Peace Negotiations, Backtracks After Huge Backlash – But the Idea Is Here To Stay

Gateway Pundit ^

[ransomnote]

The US has intentionally parked some of it’s 50 bio warfare labs in the Ukraine on Russia’s border and NATO trained and built a 600K army starting from 2014 to take on Russia. Russia kept trying to negotiate but NATO was determined to provoke Russia with security threats and then have its proxy, the Ukraine, scream “Halp! Halp! I’m being invaded!!!!”

Russia petitioned the UN, explaining in detail the danger to Russia posed by the bio warfare labs parked on it’s border and requesting the UN to investigate. The UN had no reason to decline - if there were dangers to Russia there the UN could have proven it. But the UN, US, and others dismissed Russia’s request and so here we are, with Russia bombing bio warfare labs in the Ukraine at the start of the conflict.

[oldskoolwargamer2]

Dude, remove the tinfoil.

[ransomnote]

The labs are there and Biden owns the Metabiota one. So, Biden doesn’t want peace negotiations because his lab and other actions would be exposed.

[oldskoolwargamer2]

Relax, dude. No need for childish name calling.

US support for Ukraine and Ukraine concession of territory as an immediate response to Russian aggression are two separate subjects.

US support for Ukraine is certainly debatable. But for Trump to assert on the first day of the Russian invasion of Ukraine that Ukraine must immediately make territorial concessions is absurd.

[oldskoolwargamer2]

“Aggression endorsed by NATO” How so? Are you really arguing that NATO has endorsed aggression against Russia? Not sure I understand your argument.

[ganeemead]

You say that ukrainians did not want to be invaded?? Then perhaps they should have avoided the following:

• Handing their country over to George Soros ,Bork Obunga, SlicKKK KKKlintler, Patricia Nuland and other transnational gangsters for nefarious purposes and usages.
• Allowing their Nation to be made into a planetary epicenter for child trafficking, money laundering , and every other kind of major International gangsterism.
• Shelling the innocent people of the Donbass on a daily basis after the Nazi takeover in 2014
• attempting to implement genocidal policies ( Banning the use of Russian language in ethnic Russian regions).
• Allowing American interests to construct and operate several dozen illegal bio-war Laboratories within their nation's territory. This action by itself would have constituted sufficient reason for Russians to invade.
• Placing NATO weapons at Russia's doorstep from their territory despite repeated warnings from Russia that this amounted to Crossing an absolute Red line.
• Attempting to actually join nato. All I've ever seen nato do is attack and bomb innocent people and I'm an American; Putin and Russian officials who have to deal with those wankers on a daily basis probably have more reasons for disliking them than I do...
• Seeking to acquire nuclear weapons. Ukraine after all is not a legitimate nation; more like a Nazi army occupying land that has been expropriated from Poland, Romania, Hungary and Russia. Nobody wants nazis living nextdoor to them and especially not nuclear-armed nazis and double especially not nuclear-armed nazis who have no legitimate business even being there...

[oldskoolwargamer2]

OK comrade. Easy on the vodka, you are starting to babble.

[oldskoolwargamer2]

Straight from “The People’s World”, eh, comrade?

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/after-months-of-denial-u-s-admits-to-running-ukraine-biolabs/

[ConservativeInPA]

Talk about name calling? Trump is absurd? Pot meet kettle. You have no idea what you are talking about. That happens when you virtue signal and follow the lead of Biden and Zelensky. So shove it where the sun doesn’t shine.

[Westbrook]

> France has a “historical precedent” to Louisiana.

Bought and paid for. We have a treaty.

> Russia has a “historical precedent” to parts of Alaska.

Bought and paid for. We have a treaty.

> Mexico has a “historical precedent” to parts of Texas.

Did you forget how Texas was separated from Mexico?

The Soviet Union, which under Khrushchev's leadership, ceded Crimea to Ukraine, no longer exists. Unless ratified by the Russian Federation, treaties made by the Soviet Union are honored by the Russian Federation at its discretion.

The Russian Federation is the old Russian Empire with a new name. The Sickle and Hammer has been replaced with the Imperial Crest of the Tsar. It is on the cover of their passports and is a watermark on every page. It is the center of the ceremonial flag of the Russian Federation. It appears on all their official documentation and government buildings.

Here is the Imperial Crest, complete with Roman Double Eagle, St. George slaying the dragon, and the Cross of Christ.

[oldskoolwargamer2]

Imperial Germany ceased to exist in 1918. Areas of what became Poland were part of Imperial Germany. Imperial Germany became (briefly) the Weimar Republic and then the Third Reich. By your logic Adolf Hitler’s invasion of Poland was perfectly acceptable.

[Westbrook]

Actually, IIRC, Sudetenland was German territory before WWI, and the Weimar Republic no longer existed, so Hitler had a point, in that case.

The terms of WWI made Hitler’s rise to power possible.

Milking the Ukraine as a cash cow money laundry for Western corruptocrats, while breaking promises not to bring NATO to the Russian border, precipitated this war.

Once again, the corrupt Western elites miscalculated and innocent people die by the tens of thousands as a result.

[ransomnote]

Calling me ‘comrade’ makes you look silly - as if your eyes are welling up with tears from a tantrum you’re trying not to throw.

I’ve never seen the website you linked.

[Rockingham]

A peace imposed by NATO on Ukraine requiring it to recognize Russia's seizure of its territory would, for Ukraine and others in the region, be an endorsement by NATO of Russian aggression.

The historical analogy that comes to mind is England's endorsement of Nazi Germany's seizure of the Czech Sudetenland. Famously touted by Neville Chamberlin as assuring "peace in our time," it solidified German support for Hitler and his project of territorial expansion.

[McGruff]

Eventually it will come to be. How many more must die in this losing battle.

[Rockingham]

The US pays for NATO because it gets compensating benefits that outweigh the cost. Since Europe has been at peace for decades now due to NATO, this has avoided the human and budget busting costs of another World War. In addition, due to NATO, the gets preferential access to scientific and technological developments in Europe that are of defense significance. These increase US security markedly and save money as well.

The daughter of some longtime friends has physics and chemistry degrees and enjoys a dream job of working for the US Navy as a civilian scientist. In essence, she travels throughout Europe and Asia assessing new defense technologies from our allies that the US may want in on. As her parents joke ruefully, since their daughter's work and even her travel itinerary are classified, they cannot ask how she is doing except in the most general terms.

[Cronos]

The Russian speaking Ukrainians had declared themselves a separate state and were being attacked by the Azov Brigade before the Russians invaded

that is false - there are many Russian speaking Ukrainians who did not want to be separate nor a part of Russia - one of those Russian speakers is Zelenskyy himself

Furthermore, From 2019 polls done on BOTH sides of the de facto border of the DPR/LPR and Ukraine -- Donbas: Majority wants DNR/LNR to be part of Ukraine

A survey among the population in Donbas shows that a majority on both sides of the front line prefers for the DNR/LNR to remain part of Ukraine. While opinions on the future status are diverse, the option to be part of Ukraine without an autonomous status has even gained in popularity in the non-government-controlled Donbas.

[Cronos]

Westbrook Sudetenland was German territory before WWI

Sudentenland was Imperial Austro-Hungarian i.e. Hapsburg territory before 1918

Just as the eastern seaboard of the USA was imperial British territory in the 1700s

It was not part of "Germany"

Furthermore, oldskoolwargamer2 said Imperial Germany ceased to exist in 1918. Areas of what became Poland were part of Imperial Germany. Imperial Germany became (briefly) the Weimar Republic and then the Third Reich. By your logic Adolf Hitler’s invasion of Poland was perfectly acceptable. --> Sudentenland became part of Czechoslovakia, not Poland, after 1918

The areas that were part of Imperial Germany and then became part of interwar Poland were the Poznan and other areas that had been "Polish" ethnically and were part of a Polish (well Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth) before the Prussians took it in 1791

Hitler's irredentist aims were nonsensical as these were dynastic kings that conquered lands and ruled them - like the Jurchen Manchus conquered Han China and vassalized Tibet, Inner Mongolia and xinjiang and now the Han Chinese try to claim the latter as part of "China"

[Cronos]

Westbrook The terms of WWI made Hitler’s rise to power possible.

only in the vaguest way -- Hitler tried his beer hall putsch in 1923 and it failed - spectacularly

The terms of WWI were a factor, but the bigger factors for Hitler's rise to power were (and this is corroborated by a number of historians, from William L Shirer onwards:

• The German/Prussian generals creating the "stab in the back" mythology to deflect blame from them to the centrist-socialist politicians, when the generals themselves had decided, advised and then said they would not fight anymore and an armistice was needed
  
  
• The great depression - this crushed German recovery
  
  
• The failure of the League of nations - to stop Japan in Manchuria from doing what the Russians are trying to do now in the Donbas - this opened the door to conquest as acceptable in international relations
  
  
• the ever present threat of communism
  
  
• Centrist parties tolerating the extremism of the national socialists

the terms of Versailles were accepted by the Germans by the late 1920s

[Cronos]

Westbrook The Soviet Union, which under Khrushchev's leadership, ceded Crimea to Ukraine, no longer exists. Unless ratified by the Russian Federation, treaties made by the Soviet Union are honored by the Russian Federation at its discretion.

That is error on error

1. the "Soviet Union" didn't cede Crimea to Ukraine -- The Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic gave Crimea tot he Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic

“PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE RSFSR

RESOLUTION

February 5, 1954

ON THE TRANSFER OF THE CRIMEAN REGION FROM THE STRUCTURE OF THE RSFSR TO THE STRUCTURE OF THE UKRAINIAN SSR

Considering the commonality of the economy, territorial proximity and close economic and cultural ties between the Crimean regional and Ukrainian SSR, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR decides:

The Crimean region from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR”

Crimea was transferred to Ukraine by G. Malenkov, and K. Voroshilov signed the decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR and Kirichenko (First Secretary of Ukrainian SSR) received the Crimean Region.

Kliment Voroshilov was known as a great hero of the Russian civil war - it was an exchange for Taganrog area (annexed in 1924).

2. Now, "Why" - in 1954 the Russians and Ukrainian SSRs celebrated the 300th anniversary of the "re-unification of Russia and Ukraine" - this was made into a federation wide celebration - the "Hotel Ukraina" was inaugurated in Moscow and some Moscow streets were given Ukrainian namea and a monument to the Ukrainian national poet Taras Shevchenko was raised in Moscow

no one in 1954 held the view that the entire Russia nowadays seems to support: there was no Ukraine before Soviet rule -- the Soviets all held that Ukraine was as old as Russia, both being descendants of the same millennium-old Rus civilization.

3. Putin confirmed that Crimea is Ukrainian several times, the last time on February 14, 2014, two weeks before the Operation (and after the order was signed).