RUSSIANS REPORT ROUTING JAPANESE IN BORDER BATTLE (8/2/38)

Microfiche-New York Times archives | 8/2/38 | Walter Duranty

[indcons]

The Battle of Khalkin Gol/Nomonhan is one of my favorite topics. A forgotten battle of WW2, this was the battle in which Gen. Zhukov became famous for his tactical brilliance and his willingness to use Russian (and Mongol) troops as cannon fodder.

Milhist ping

[indcons]

Glad to find another person who is interested in the Battle of Khalkin Gol.

I agree with your reasoning, btw. The thorough defeat of the Kwantung Army by Zhukov’s Ivans (and Mongol ancillaries) made the IJA lose all appetite for a land war on the Soviet eastern front.

This was an important turning point as the IJA expected a land equivalent and repeat of the 1905 Battle of Tsushima.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

Lest MilHist ping list be misled, this thread is about a battle that occurred a year before Khalkin Gol.

[indcons]

You’re right, of course. My bad....Zhukov wasn’t on the front as yet though the stage was being set for the Battle of Khalkin Gol/Nomonhan.

[skeeter]

Did the Japanese have much armor up there? I was thinking that was their main problem -- that the Soviets had armor & the Japanese basically didn't?

The Japanese had no armor in this battle. The outcome was entirely predictable.

[skeeter]

This incident caused the imperial army, who had always advocated war with russia, to lose prestige within the ruling elite and empowered the navy, who endorsed the southern strategy for obvious reasons, to pretty much call the shots leading up to WWII.

Khalkin Gol made Pearl Harbor possible.

[BroJoeK]

"The Japanese had no armor in this battle. The outcome was entirely predictable."

Which battle?

August 1938 minor skirmish on Changkufeng heights, now completely forgotten by all except our own Homer Simpson?

Or July 1939 hugely significant (though largely forgotten) Battle of Khalkin Gol/Nomonhan?

The Battle of Khalkin Gol/Nomonhan did involve a Japanese division strength armored force. For further details and links, see several of the posts above.

[BroJoeK]

"The Japanese had no armor in this battle. The outcome was entirely predictable."

According to this source, you are 100% correct, and Wikipedia is wrong.

Battle of Khalkin Gol

From just the looks of it, this sources seems more authoritative, but it makes one wonder how they could report such diametrically opposite "facts."

I only know (or think I know) what I read.

[skeeter]

We have the same sources...

Anyway, none of the sources I've seen mention Japanese armor in the Zhukov encirclement that led directly to the soviet victory, the battle that broke the stalemate. There may have been some in the general vicinity, but it was not involved in the battle.

[BroJoeK]

"Anyway, none of the sources I've seen mention Japanese armor in the Zhukov encirclement that led directly to the soviet victory, the battle that broke the stalemate."

Check out my posts #11 & #14 above, plus the Wikipedia articles they came from. One claims the Japanese had division strength armor there -- 180 tanks. That sounds pretty serious to me.

The other says a unit commander was killed when his new tank was hit by Soviet fire. That sounds to me like Japanese tanks were involved in the battle.

I wonder if maybe new information has come to light which puts a different interpretation on the Japanese defeat at Khalkhin Gol?

[skeeter]

Perhaps. Thanks for the info.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

The second and third articles in this thread deal with the foreign presence in Shanghai and elsewhere in China.