Everything old is new again.
Posted on 08/27/2011 6:37:40 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
Everything old is new again.
I didn't really like the book "Timeline," by Michael Crichton, in which people travel back in time to the Medieval period, but there was a funny bit where one of the moderns is getting armored up and his squires ask him if he's been sick recently, since he appears so puny. I bet that is more accurate than many of us would care to believe.
Mainly because the French were a bunch of small Kingdoms, Fiefdoms, Baronies, and other minor aristocratic houses that had been handed down to one another for Centuries, and they arrogantly and collectively thought they were too good to be defeated by any mere English peasant “long bowman”.
Napoleon Bonaparte was able to conquer most of France because he united all of those petty principalities into one nation. Until then, nobody with any guts was left of those different Houses because so many of them were slaughtered at Crecy, Poitiers, and Agincourt. The French Revolution finished off what the English long bowmen started...
Exactly.
There were three types of armor - Parade Armor - ceremonial, Armor for the Tournament - which was REALLY heavy and protective and Field Armor - lighter in weight and designed for use in Combat.
They may have been using Parade or Tournament Armor in these tests.
As fire arms became more widespread, the TYPE of armor changed. It became heavier and thicker in the front while being reduced to a breast and back plate with a helmet and a section to cover one arm.
Also, taking part in re-enactments HARDLY is equivalent to the kind of life - long continuous training these people had.
Just looking a long-bowman, VERY few archers today could draw a 100-150 lb English Warbow, but that was common in the 100 years war. They trained from their youth in the business they were about.
Another interesting note is Henry V’s personal attachment to the longbow.
When he was Prince of Wales and at the age of 15 or 16, he was leading one of his Father’s forces against the Welsh, who had little love for the English. Henry paused during the battle and raised the face piece of his armor to take a drink, and was promptly shot in the face with an arrow that embedded itself in his left cheek.
After the battle, the arrow was extracted, and the wound dressed with clean linen soaked in vinegar and honey, and it eventually healed, but left an enormous crater in the side of his face. That’s why there are no portraits of Henry V showing that side of his face.
Great minds... I just used that in the Digest header!
I agree with your hypothesis. After all, they trained from childhood in this armor and reputedly some were trained to leap to the saddle in full armor (probably not the armor we see in jousts in the movies).
Another comment along this line. Look at some of the surviving weapons such as battle axes, maces and broadswords. They were huge and made out of steel and had to be a bitch to swing all day in battle, but they did—while wearing mail and carrying shields.
Tough knights don’t dance.
Even by 1066, the swords were long and heavy in order to penetrate the armor of that time — also the impact could break limbs, rupture blood vessels, or knock an opponent cold, irrespective of the amount of armor.
“So, how tall are you now? /rimshot”
Early in the morning, in thick socks, before the cares of the world have gotten me down, maybe 5’ 7” ;-)
But I am making up for it in increased girth!
Analysis of medieval knights’ skeletons shows that the bones of their sword arms and shoulders are much thicker & heavier than the other, probably due to the extensive training.
Yeah, I grok that.
Thanks for the body armor ping.
Longbows defeated the French regardless of their armor.
The French didn't help themselves when they rode over their own italian mercenary crossbowmen.
True. But the crossbow didn't have as much range as the longbow, and the French knights were trying to close the gap and overrun the English longbowmen. That is when the mud and their weight bogged them down and they were slaughtered.
From what I have read seven to ten arrows an miniute. Hank had 7500 archers with wedge shaped armor pearsers, he started out with a reserve of 750k arrows aside from what the archers carried.
The Romans also had an advantage in using a stabbing sword as opposed to a slashing type.
The entire French "plan" was stupid. They had thousands of infantry that they shoved into the back of their lines and who basically sat out the fight. Those guys could have been sent through the woods to engage the English left flank. The crossbowman could have been pushed forward to compensate for their lesser range. If nothing else, it would have forced the English bowmen to divide their attention and their arrows. Instead, they just charged straight up the middle (three times, I think).
Please excuse my 20/20 hind-sight generalship. I swear, I just don't understand how the English lost the 100 Years War...
“300 rounds, rifle, entrenching tool, poncho, poncho liner, grenades 3, helmet, cigarettes, c rats 6, clothes, two gallons of water, 200 for the pig, 1966.”
Like an idiot, I carried 500 rounds for the longest time. “Better to have it and not need it...”
Drop the cigarettes, add a radio, spare battery & handset, make it a case of C’s, soap, towel & shaving gear.. Since I had the radio I could usually con one of the other FO team members into carrying the e-tool. Of course, once the shooting started, EVERYBODY wanted the e-tool.
I tried carrying an air mattress, but after nursing one like a baby for weeks, it was blown away during a night medevac. 12” slit in it when I found it next morning. Oh, the weeping & wailing & gnashing of teeth!
Oh, you forgot the steel pot & flak jacket. That’s another 15#.
Up in the mountains we’d drop the helmet, go with 5 canteens and 8 C’s for a week long patrol. I swapped the M-16 for a Model 12 pump shotgun. Mow down that bush!
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