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Posted on 10/28/2011 8:48:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
Yes, Rome brought advances along with their thuggery. It is a mixed bag. I am neither praising them nor condeming them.
Northern and Eastern Europe are not to blame for a lack of European unity. It has something to do with numerous different cultures, languages, and a number of differing worldviews. Besides, who says that Europe has to be unified? Must North America also be unified?
And I may have used the wrong word when I said unite. I really meant the civilization brought to the world by the Romans and the Greeks before them may have been better for the people of the region had it spread over all the land mass of Europe. We may have had less of the different world view and culture and languages you speak about. Ergo less conflict and wars.
Just as I think most of South American is better off having one cultural heritage from Spain. Other wise it might still be as barbaric as Africa which didn't have one conqueror.
Thanks JerseyHighlander.
Every time I see a new release of Gladiator (10th anniv special DVD, the BluRay, etc) I toy with the idea of getting it. I’m not sure where my original DVD is, it’s buried around here somewhere I suspect. I love the way the movie looks, and the soundtrack is awesome, and the way it made swords-and-sandals respectible again with a big budget and great performances. Plus, the actress playing the sister was hot stuff.
Despite the modern myths about it, Teutoburg was a temporary setback — Rome did reconquer the territory lost, and then some. The additional manpower in the form of auxiliaries was used in the Praetorian Guard (which recruited tall men) and throughout the legions on the frontiers. The Romans maintained their German frontier with four legions, total, and their Danubian frontiers with five legions. It’s astounding, really. They had an active bribery policy to reach the tribes just over their borders, and through trade, travel, and native alliances, to keep the tribes peaceful well into the interior where they never went. Of late Roman colonization has been discerned in the Baltic, as well as in Ireland, and that’s probably just scratching the surface.
Pretty much everyone in Europe is descended from Romans; as we only have our ancestors to account for our lives, we literally owe our entire existences to the Roman conquests. :’)
True enough.
The initial Roman conquest of Britain took place during the reign of Claudius, and was nearly wrapped up under his successor Nero. Those soldiers were Romans, other Italians, and colonials who’d lived for generations under Roman rule. Other than Boudicca’s revolt (which was ultimately destroyed by a single Roman legion), Rome had no trouble with Britain other than the pretender Carausius, and his short-lived independent empire was one of several that had divided the entire Roman Empire during that period. Finally Rome abandoned the province during the terminal civil wars and invasions. They left their final installations in good order, probably against the possibility of reoccupation.
Roman military administration was typically carried out by troops foreign to the area, and the auxiliaries used for such assignments were chosen based on the need for superior matchups against whatever local battle practices were. So, in Britain, the Romans brought in Sarmatian cavalry, which became available after the Sarmatians themselves were defeated near the Black Sea. As with most (maybe all) empires historically, Rome shuffled subject peoples around via the use of auxiliaries (such as these Sarmatians).
Augustus had disbanded half of the regular legions after the defeat of Antony, retiring the numbers as it were, reducing the regulars to 28 legions (plus the Praetorian Guard, which remained with the Emperor) and created an equal number (28) of auxiliary legions, which varied in size, and had at least somewhat Romanized field command, and observers or liaisons who were (at least) bilingual (or had bi- or multi-lingual slaves).
Fort find adds to potted history of Romans’ boozing
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2799508/posts
I don't think Rome ever had any grand scheme for conquering the world. More that they kept going until it cost more than it gained to keep going.
I think Rome initially moved north because Rome had repeatedly been attacked from the north. It was a matter of time before they were overwhelmed if they kept playing defense on that border. It may be that they couldn't afford to stop once they started.
I'm not partisan in terms of who was right or wrong. By our standards, there were no good guys back then.
I concur, the conquest of Gaul was popular because of the Gallic invasions of Italy, during one of which the Gauls sacked Rome. By Caesar’s time that was long of out living memory, but the Romans still remembered it. :’)
Caesar’s successors had to deal with occasional incursions, but mostly managed their frontiers through the discipline of the legions, a few long walls, and (mostly) stabilization of tribes and other groups just over their borders, iow, creation of buffer states.
One problem was the devastation of Gaul wrought by Caesar — as much as half of the Gallic population was displaced, and a significant fraction was carted off into slavery. The vacant lands were discussed and drooled over by tribes east of the Rhine. And that problem went on for centuries. It was finally resolved when the thin bronze line failed for good, and European populations familiar today started to enter and take root.
What if...
The dissipated Roman state had been reinvigorated in a new center of Gallic/Germanic peoples further north.
Probably would have been something horrific but maybe not. At least the accumulated knowledge would have carried forward.
map -- more or less on a direct line between Dusseldorf and Munster, almost due north of Dortmund.
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