There is this pistol packing version from the 70s New Avengers.
Posted on 05/14/2016 2:17:33 PM PDT by jazusamo
Are you really sure that you have the “same” gun with all of those swap outs?
Great range story. There’s an old Patrick McManus story in one of his books that mentions a rifle loaned to him (in his youth) by an old Indian. The descriptions of the rifle’s effects on both shoulder and target led me to imagine an 1886, though no specific description is given. I think the tale is titled “My First Deer, and Welcome To It”.
There is this pistol packing version from the 70s New Avengers.
I had a great grand uncle who had a Henry Rifle he brought back from the Great Cattle (beefsteak) Raid. With that provenance, I wonder how much it would be worth now.
I assume Zimmerman wasn’t the Seller.
And McDonald’s hamburgers are better than Filet Mignon too, right?
Folks, thanks for the info.
That is one beautiful gun.
Someday when I have some extra cash I’m going to get one.
I want the .44-40 as it is the original cartridge. However I understand that many people order it in .45 long colt, which is not original but is easier to reload.
A gun that can shoot both black powder and modern rounds is very very cool.
I’ve seen Hickok45 shoot on on you tube. Way cool.
“...high capacity assault rifle, back in 1886, and it utilized a military round. Ten shots of 45-70 pretty near as fast as you could aim and pull the trigger.”
The US War Dept (and military experts generally) heroically resisted the adoption of any repeater until 1892, after every major power and most minor powers had adopted small-bore bolt action magazine rifles firing cartridges charged with nitro propellant (smokeless powder). Authorities have come in for copious criticism from the self-appointed experts in the US gun culture, but there were arguably good reasons to wait:
- Weight of ammunition and rifle. Military cartridges of the blackpowder centerfire era (1867-1886) were big and heavy. Rifles were all steel, and heavy: fitting any useful number of ready rounds into a rifle design is a feat. Load one one of the existing repeaters; to pick it up is to experience real weightiness. The package is not one the average solider of those times wanted to lug about for long.
- Expense. The US Ordnance establishment was still scratching its head over what to do with millions of percussion-fired muzzleloaders clogging arsenals across the nation, after the American Civil War. No one wanted to pay money for a new-fangled, untried repeater; several very serviceable bolt actions were designed (Hotchkiss, Keene, Chaffee-Reese to name a few), but the armed services bought small numbers only, for test and evaluation.
- Complexity. Repeaters have more parts, and are malfunction-prone compared to single-shots. They were unproven. And no one wanted to run risks of failure, by selecting one only to find out later it worked poorly. It took decades to prove the M86 was worthy.
- Bias against lever actions. Military users did not like lever action rifles: until the M86, all were fragile and weak, and it’s tough to fire them in the prone position.
- The most-cited excuse was “troops will shoot up all their ammunition.” Believable but never provable. Re-used as an excuse when the semi-auto was being developed, and later when full-auto fire selectors became possible. Into the 1980s.
Winchester’s M1886 was in no sense an “assault rifle”. Any similarity between repeaters of the mid 19th century and modern select-fire light military rifles is more credible if one chooses weapons like the Henry rifle, early Winchesters (M1866/M1873/M1892), and the like (Marlin 1888, 1894, Colt Lightning slide action, Remington 25 etc). All fired cartridges like the 44-40: pistol rounds, essentially.
True, the .45 so called "Long Colt" is easier to reload but blowback into the action causing powder fouling when using black powder is a real problem. The original 44-40 bottle neck black powder round doesn't have that problem.
I buy my 44-40 black powder rounds here:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/44_40_Black_Powder_Ammunition_it-158172.aspx?CAT=4443
Very close to the original 1873 rounds.
“Get stuffed”?
1. Good luck on that, Bud. Might want work on your courtesy.
2. Did you actually read what I wrote? I used to collect 1886s and thoroughly enjoy them.
That’s ok. The world needs Hi Point owners too.
I read another funny story from the ‘30s somewhere in the Midwest where a very short lady wanted to go deer hunting with her husband. He kind of blew her off by dumping her at the edge of the woods and stuck her with a huge full-length 1886 in .45-70 which really dwarfed her. Clearly, she couldn’t go very far with that beast of a rifle.
She stood there and sulked until she heard what she thought was a horse punching through the brush which turned out to be a monster Whitetail deer. She nailed it and the photo in the book shows a huge deer hanging from a tree, a grinning little lady with a big Winchester, and a very disgruntled husband. If I remember correctly, that deer still holds the Boone and Crocket record - I think I remember 450 pounds dressed!
Yes, it’s a 45/70. A big, fat, rather slow moving bullet perfect for the woods. Not any good over 200 meters, but where we hunt, 50 meters would be a long shot.
Was looking at the 444, but went with the old standard.
As I get older, I value the “older” tried and true things. The new superfast narrow rounds are great, but even a small twig will deflect them in the dense woods.
45-70: The bull elephant in the room
eh.
not impressed.
All my grandparents have had guns just like that laying around their homes their entire lives.
Great rifle, thanks for the info. There is an antique 1880s Marlin in really nice shape for sale here in my local area, I think it is a 50-110, but am not sure. I’d like to have it as Marlins have a very nice, simple and clean action.
I was thinking of putting a scope on mine, but left the “iron sights” Little more traditional, makes the hunt a little more fair.
Have a good weekend.
Thanks, same to you!
That’s useful information, I love this site, you never know what you’re going to learn.
I was leaning towards the .45, but that clinches the .44-40. I guess the old time engineers actually knew what they were doing.
What do you think of Uberti Vs Winchester in the 1873. Seems like the Winchester is much more expensive. They both have a really good reputation.
Taylors is also a consideration but I think they are custom made by Uberti for Taylors.
Chris Kyle wrote a book called American Gun in which he had a chapter about the Winchester. Highly recommend the book.
“True, the .45 so called “Long Colt” is easier to reload but blowback into the action causing powder fouling when using black powder is a real problem. The original 44-40 bottle neck black powder round doesn’t have that problem.’
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