A long lost airplane that crashed during WWII is finally discovered almost perfectly preserved on

U.K. Daily Mail ^ | 8/9/2017 | James Draper

[Bonemaker]

1st 2 photos aren’t same wreck as subject...I don’t think. Source article in Daily Mail identifies it as an Japanese Aichi E13A “Jake”.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Thanks!!

The box section in the fuselage goes much more forward, past the leading edge of the wings in the original photo.

Much smaller in the new photos.

I will ask around. I’m sitting at the FBO of I69 this very minute!

[Yosemitest]

That's been solved.

[editor-surveyor]

.
If that thing is “perfectly preserved,” I’d hate to see a damaged one!
.

[rlmorel]

FBO of I69? Airport? F??? B??? Overpass? I just know I am going to feel stupid when you tell me what it is!

I think the box section in the top two pictures has a panel of metal in place that either corroded or came off in some way on the bottom aircraft.

Also, the longer the box opening appears aft

I now feel pretty strongly it is the same plane type.

[rlmorel]

I do think these are two different wrecks.

The aft wing root looks the same.

If there was skin where the red outlines are, these two would look quite similar.

The yellow outline looks like a pontoon mast fairing, the mast probably taken away with the pontoon when it detached.

I do believe this is a Aichi E13A.

Gad. I hate it when I question an expert in the media, simply because they never get any of this stuff right...and then they are right! I guess if they had called it a "Heavy Bomber", "battleship" or something like that that would have been expected.

[Phlyer]

My primary reasons for assessing the unknown plane as right side up are the flap position and the wing incidence.

The flap position is clearly 'down' relative to the wing (not stowed in a streamlined position as shown by the root fairing). It is at a 'normal' down position, which the hinges should allow. Very few flaps can go to a position nearly perpendicular to the wing chord plane and above it. The hinge mechanisms don't allow it. I'm not aware of any WWII era plane that could. And of course if the hinges just broke, the flap should be lying below the plane rather than still hanging on it. This is apparently what happened on the Aichi.

The wing incidence is not about whether the overall wing is near the top or bottom of the fuselage (as shown in your sketches), but whether the leading edge of the wing is higher or lower than the trailing edge. In the unknown plane, the leading edge is clearly nearer the 'corner' of the fuselage (therefore higher in this orientation) than the trailing edge. The leading edge is always higher than the trailing edge relative to the fuselage, if there is any visible incidence at all. So the wing must be right side up in the photo.

In addition, the camber on the top surface is always greater (more curvature) than the bottom surface. If you look at your pictures of the inverted Aichi (in particular, the dark line running right at the root of the right wing you can see that it nearly straight. In contrast, the ribs in the unknown plane show significant curvature.

The issue making identification difficult is that the wing is mounted near the top of the fuselage. Most WWII aircraft had low-mounted wings (to make landing gear shorter, etc.) The exceptions were aircraft where the landing gear mounted in the fuselage (e.g. Wildcat, and a mid-wing), or where the 'landing gear' was not arranged in a conventional way - such as on float planes. On a single-float plane with outriggers (like the OS2U), the wing is mounted higher than normal (at about the midpoint of the fuselage) to make the strut to the centerline float shorter while still keeping the wing well clear of waves. One additional factor making it possible this is an OS2U is that the Kingfisher had an unusually low canopy rail - not much higher than the wing - to allow better observation. Other mid-wing planes such as the TBF and SB2C are essentially low-wing planes with a bomb-bay stuck on the bottom of the wing.

I would have identified the Aichi as inverted without hesitation. It has a straighter lower wing contour and the leading edge is lower than the trailing edge in this photo - meaning the wing/fuselage incidence line is upside down.

None of which is proof on the unknown plane. Just observation and interpretation. It is important to remember that the fuselage may be distorted (making the incidence of wing to fuselage look different than it really was) or parts (like the canopy if it's right side up, or bomb bay doors if it's inverted) may be missing. I won't insist on anything. But I'm confident that the observable data - incomplete though they are - support an upright orientation.

[rlmorel]

Actually, no...in the picture I posted of a different wreck inverted of the same plane type, the flaps are pointing downward exactly the same way. (Flaps should NEVER point up, right? And those in the photo of the other wreck do.

Don’t you agree they are pointing towards the sand on the inverted plane?

[rlmorel]

Argh. Sorry, the views I posted don’t show it. There was another view on the pinintrest site that did from a different angle. I’ll see if I can find it.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Fixed Base of Operations. The place where you get gas etc at the airport - Eastern Cincinnati Aviation, Inc.

In this case I69 is Clermont County Airport, Batavia Ohio (like RSW is FAA’s designation for Ft Myers Florida airport, etc.).

It is also the home to Sporty’s Pilot Shop, probably the largest pilot gear catalog company.

They have Sporty’s Academy - a pilot training facility. My son is taking flying lessons - squeezed between football practice and Scouts!

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Never did get any ideas as good as the ones on FreeRepublic earlier!

[rlmorel]

Whew! I am relieved it wasn’t something super easy! I am a ex-Navy guy, so FBO for me was always moving around!

One of my bucket list things is to solo an airplane. Don’t know if I ever will. But I’ll tell you this: You are one hell of a dad to enroll him in flying lessons.

[rlmorel]

By the way...I promise to stop arguing with you on this until I can find the website with those images!

I do enjoy this kind of thing on FR, though. I had a bunch of pictures that my Mother-in-law gave me from WWII. She worked at a drug store in Boston during and after the war, and people would drop of film to get it developed and would never come back for it. She found these images:

IIRC, the film was removed from the USS Leyte Gulf when she had the fire in Boston in 1953, and they were forgotten about. It was speculated the undeveloped film had been in the photo lab on the ship since the end of WWII. But nobody knows where they came from.

I asked for and got a huge amount of great info from a lot of Freepers. It is what this place is great for.

[Red Badger]

I guess if they had called it a "Heavy Bomber", "battleship" or something like that that would have been expected.

Just be glad they didn't call it a 'Glock AK-15 Fully Automatic Streetsweeper Assault Aircraft'.........................

[rlmorel]

LOL, just think if the plane had been a night fighter painted black...

[bar sin·is·ter]

She’s floating my device right now.