Star Trek: Discovery

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[TonyM]

I quit both Star Trek and Doctor Who. Leftist ruin everthing by turning it into a socialist agenda. I am surprised they did not make the new Doctor Who a lesbian while they were at it. Its a shame for a series that has ran so long to end because it was forever ruined because of leftist idiots.

[Robert DeLong]

Actually it is chock-full, not chock or chalk.

[PIF]

I quit both Star Trek and Doctor Who.

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Same.

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surprised they did not make the new Doctor Who a lesbian

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That’s a later show where she steps out of the TARDIS that will be reconfigured into a closet ...

[Para-Ord.45]

The Orville.

Is it me or is it struggling to decide whether its a serious sci-fi or a comedy in space?

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

That's not an anachronism. Even if monkey (or adjustable) wrenches become obsolete in a couple hundred years, they wouldn't be anachronisms. Historical artifacts, maybe — but not anachronisms.

OTOH, a transporter beam in 2018 would be an anachronism. (Unless Elon Musk has one stashed in a secret lab.)

[Dr. Sivana]

A scuttle full of coal in a modern train in the fuel area would also be an anachronism. So would a horse and buggy on the interstate. Or a mace on a battlefield between 1st world countries. Anachronisms are something that doesn’t match the time in either direction, which is why the word is older than stories about time travel.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

While the “chrono” part refers to time — whether past or future; the term “anachronism” almost always refers to objects from the present being depicted in a setting in the past. That's not possible, given out current technology.

However, objects from the past routinely appear in our present. In museums, they're called artifacts. Around my home they're called “that pile of old junk in the basement I'm going to get rid of with a yard sale”.

You used the term critically — as if the wrench appearing in TOS were equivalent to (say) an iPhone appearing in a production of Hamlet. Really, that was not a valid criticism. For instance, Scotty might be a collector of historic mechanic's tools. He might call them artifacts, he might call them “my precious” — but, he'd never call them anachronisms.

[Dr. Sivana]

From dictionary.com:

something or someone that is not in its correct historical or chronological time, especially a thing or person that belongs to an earlier time:
The sword is an anachronism in modern warfare.

the term “anachronism” almost always refers to objects from the present being depicted in a setting in the past.

As the dictionary definition points out, your "given" that anachronism means things presented from a future time in a past setting is generally NOT the case. If Kirk's Bridge had been outfitted with a ship's wheel, that too would be an anachronism. The few times that it works the way you are describing, are in time travel stories, or historical fiction where something shows up, or perhaps a movie of the Old West, where the hair styles are all from the 1950's or 1970s.

Anachronism can be newer things in an incompatible old setting, or older things in an incompatible new setting. That is the etymology of the word. Anything out of its time. Of course, it would not apply to a wrench in a 23rd century museum, any more than it does Kirk's reading glasses (ST II movie) of ancient books kept as keepsakes.

[Empireoftheatom48]

If you can recall, Lost in Space started out somewhat serious and then into stupidity. Although I had a chrush on Angela Cartwright. Best SF these days is the Expanse. Glad Amazon picked it up. Have read all seven novels waiting for the next in March with great anticipation.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

Kirk's present is out future. Our present is his past. Your first paragraph seems to ovverlook that.

This started with you zinging TOS for an anachronism — which is something to avoid, when writing (say) an historical drama. Mainly, because (so far as we know today) objects cannot travel back in time. However, a wrench could be found in a future time, for any number of ordinary reasons. Thus, your criticism of TOS, on that point, was not valid. Connotation vs denotation.

[Dr. Sivana]

However, a wrench could be found in a future time, for any number of ordinary reasons.

While I do not believe that adjustable wrenches were around 300 years ago, hammers were. I guarantee that no 300 year-old hammer, if restored to new condition, would look like something you could have picked up at the Home Depot. There might be Coke machines 300 years in the future, too. But if a model that looked EXACTLY like one from the 21st century showed up in the ship's commissary, that would be anachronistic as well. Everyday objects that have lasted for centuries are typically rendered differently in the Star Trek universe, while keeping those attributes that make them recognizeable (e.g. chairs, clothing, doors, lighting fixtures).

My guess is the prop man was charged with coming up with something recognizable that could be used as a weapon in a fist fight, and he came up with that, and no one could find anything better.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

Good points — I concede on denotation; but still disagree on connotation.

Everything is traveling in time —so far, in one direction only. The examples you give can all be explained within the bounds of today's known science and tech. To pick an easy one; some old coke machines will likely become collectors items & some of them will be lovingly restored.

Meanwhile, it remains impossible to move backwards in time. When objects from a (relative) future appear in a scene set in the present, that's clearly a mistake. One we call an anachronism. Those are the sorts of anachronism we rightly criticize.

I completely agree with your last point. TOS operated on a shoestring budget for effects and props.

[Red6]

You don’t think that pushing a feminist, homosexual, environmental, diversity, inclusion, globalist agenda in a TV show is activism?

[Dr. Sivana]

Thanks to YouTube, I have found the scene in question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sCPnrRJFT4

Looking at it more closely, the wrench definitely changes from the one he grabbed at 3:53, into something larger, and looking more like a fixed crescent wrench than an adjustable wrench. Maybe the wrench is actually presenting itself as something different than what it really is, like the “Western Electric” old phone ring setting I have on my iPhone. Then, it changes shape after being grabbed to its real self. That would explain the whole thing!

[Admin Moderator]

No.

Here are the rules.

https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1611173/posts

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

That wrench certainly appears to be out of place, if not time. I can see why it appeared wrong to you. All sorts of weird stuff happens in the S.T. universe; so your shape-shifting wrench theory is plausible. (Though, why would an adjustable wrench want to self-identify as a fixed spanner?)

The biggest problem I have is more mundane. How is it that a wrench would just be left lying around on a spaceship — which moves very fast on impulse drive? Scotty would have the hide of any crewman, who just left tools lying around, unsecured.

[Dr. Sivana]

Though, why would an adjustable wrench want to self-identify as a fixed spanner?

That one's easy: skeuomorphism, the same reason why a floppy diskette icon is the on-screen toolbar symbol for saving a file to SSD, hard disk or a server.

How is it that a wrench would just be left lying around on a spaceship

If I were Roddenberry, I would claim that the wrench had a self-activating gravitational field that turns off whenever a human hand picks it up. Even in its larger size, the wrench doesn't look useful for adjusting or repairing any of the fixtures in that particular room. Handy thing about the 23rd century, you can posit almsot anything ... even more if you assume the Star Trek universe is not ours.

Man in the High Castle (Amazon series) had small color TVs getting clear reception in the otherwise dilapidated neutral zone in remote Colorado. Some posters on IMDB and Amazon point out historical "errors". Since this is an alternate universe from the get-go, that's a nearly impossible point to prove, especially since these Nazis already are sending spaceships out well-into the solar system in the early sixties. Despite that, the series has lots of love for open reel tape.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

I can’t dispute those points.

I follow (actually binge watch) TMITHC too. It’s hard to get used to the idea that WE live in an alternate universe from the characters in the story.

[PLMerite]

"Any Lesbian relationships?"

I sure hope not, the Klingon chicks aren't hot like they use to be.

[dhs12345]

Ro another Klingon, she looks beautiful.