Why Are So Many SJW Characters Mary Sues? (Good to Understand Upcoming Movies)

Youtube Video ^ | Sep 1, 2018 | Literature Devil

[z3n]

Go ahead, try to get a major character of any minority persuasion past your editor and publisher with notable flaws. You can’t. It’s not even about social justice, it’s about kneejerk reactions to how we treat protected classes. If you give your minority character’s flaws, you (the author) are perceived as attacking the class. You’re motivations and even your entire psychology will be called into question. If the flaw is the least bit close to any stereotype, even the more obscure, you’ll be put on a spit and the fire will be lit. You’re done.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

DEFINITELY not for the shareholders of publicly traded Disney.

Funny, I went back and looked at the threads around the time Black Panther came out that said pretty much the same thing. Then it went on to do $1.3 billion worldwide box office and was the top grossing movie of 2018. The second biggest grossing movie of the year was also Disney. As was the third. Disney also had two of the top three movies of 2017, all three top movies of 2016. Three of the top four in each of 2015 and 2016. They seem to know what they're doing.

[thoughtomator]

> Who wants to watch boring characters?

I guess whoever keeps buying the tickets does. Seems just as stupid to me as it does to you, but the money to fund this stuff is coming from somewhere.

[Mr. Blond]

It took Luke Skywalker 3 movies to become a mediocre Jedi, who didn’t even win his ultimate battle. Even Superman has a crippling weakness. Iron Man is an alcoholic. etc

Rey was simply born the ultimate Jedi with no training. Captain Marvel is the most powerful superhero in the universe, with no weaknesses. SJW literature always involves “The Chosen One”, perfect from birth with no learning curve or need for personal growth.

[RinaseaofDs]

Captain Marvel was XY. What happened? In this movie, is Marvel a she/it?

[KC_Lion]

Thank You for the ping AAC.

[bk1000]

“I never could stand Wesley.”

I never watched much past the original series, and that kid did not encourage me to. I wonder if his character was intended to appeal to kids a few years younger than he. I’m trying to give the benefit of the doubt in spite of Roddenberry being a bit of a SJW himself.

[Cecily]

Funny how all the SJW actresses and big talkers out in Hollyweird can’t seem to keep Harvey Weinstein and others of his ilk from raping them or coercing sex from them for acting jobs. They only talk when they are older and the career is over or on the wane. Not too powerful in reality, are they?

[Yo-Yo]

I never could stand Wesley.

[pepsi_junkie]

If your character is there to sell a message about empowering women or minorities, they can't be shown to have weaknesses or flaws. They must be perfect. And they must be more powerful than everyone else because otherwise they are still not fully empowered. And everyone must love them except villains, who must be shown to be 2-dimmensional Snidely Whiplash characters who are too evil and stupid to recognize the greatness of the hero.

In other words, boring and predictable.

[dangus]

Largely agree. Luke is a little too perfect and ideolized, but his entire character arc is one of BECOMING the hero. Ren has no story arc.

Luke acquired skills amazingly fast; we then find that he’s born of the most gifted prodigy in the galaxy. Ren comes from no-where and yet she is INSTANTLY the greatest master ever.

Luke runs off to challenge his father prematurely, setting up the entire 3rd movie. Ren has no internal conflict.

Luke nearly succombs to the dark side of the force. Arguably, he does. Ren is never tempted.

Luke plays second-fiddle romantically to bad-boy/tramp Han Solo. Ren is beautiful (personal preferences aside), but is above caring about men.

Luke is a pupil becoming a master; Ren explodes all authority of the Jedi.

[freedumb2003]

There is a huge background to storytelling and how bad MSs are.

The important thing about them is they do NOT earn their abilities. They are just super-duper. It is lazy story telling.

Welsey Crusher was a Larry Sue. No matter what, no way would a 13 YO kid, not matter how brilliant, going to know more about a Galaxy class ship than the best crew in the Federation (we can assume the latter since they are the crew of its flagship). Can you imagine the captain of an aircraft carrier letting a 13 YO helm his ship under ANY circumstances?

Of course rey from the latest SW movies is the most hated MS ever. Whenever she touches anything — light saber, ship, blaster — she is better at it than people who have been studying for decades. Because Feminism!

SJWs like female MSs b/c they think such are “empowering” and “strong.” This is of course wrong b/c they are just trite and boring. Leia Organa was a powerful woman who earned her power through her upbringing. She got in trouble and was actually enslaved before she was able to find the right moment to strike to help free herself. She has a story arc that explains why she is a badass.

Ripley on Alien was a badass b/c she HAD to be. She didn’t just go hoo-wha! and karate chop the alien(s) out the airlock. She used her fear and guile to outmaneuver the alien and showed true bravery — doing what you gotta when you are scared to death.

Those just 2 clear examples of how a female can be a strong character — a real badass — without demeaning her into a MS.

[pepsi_junkie]

In "Empire Strikes Back" Luke was impatient, arrogant, and reckless and the only reason he survived his encounter with Darth Vader was because Vader was playing with him like a cat might toy with a mouse. And then only because of who Luke was. If he was some random dude he'd have been smoked in 5 seconds.

Those are flaws and he paid a price. By the third movie he was no longer reckless, no longer impatient, no longer arrogant (well, maybe a little). He'd learned from his mistakes. Growth. Rey has nowhere to grow because she's already better than Luke ever was, better than anyone at everything actually.

[dangus]

You’re right about “Black Panther.” As for Star Wars, the bubble burst with “Solo.” It was a much better movie than any of the final sequels trilogy; I believe it failed so miserably because the Ren story line failed so miserably. People ponied up the bucks to see how it all ended, but then said, “never again.”

[Gideon7]

Ensign Sue Must Die

http://interrobangstudios.com/comics-display.php?strip_id=989

Hilarious classic MS.

[ConjunctionJunction]

Now known as Shazam (DC Comics) due to trademark conflicts with the other “Captain Marvel” owned by Marvel Comics.

[Grimmy]

Another angle used by a lot of “story tellers” in both books and movies is ‘dude with tits’ for women, usually in combat roles and such and ‘chick with a d**k’ for whiny weak men.

[PapaBear3625]

Go ahead, try to get a major character of any minority persuasion past your editor and publisher with notable flaws. You can’t. It’s not even about social justice, it’s about kneejerk reactions to how we treat protected classes. If you give your minority character’s flaws, you (the author) are perceived as attacking the class. You’re motivations and even your entire psychology will be called into question. If the flaw is the least bit close to any stereotype, even the more obscure, you’ll be put on a spit and the fire will be lit. You’re done.

Hence the anti-stereotype, where the brilliant scientist/engineer/techie character MUST be cast as a minority or woman.

[Kommodor]

Deanna, on the other hand ... uh, nevermind.

Montgomery Scott, though, there was a character. For us engineer types.

As to the Mary Sue thing, depending on how you look at it, aren’t most characters, at least protagonists, self-insert wish fulfillment characters?

I’ll pick on a few:
Retief
Miro Hetzel
Harry Potter
Lazarus Long
Cap’n Kirk
Buck Rogers
Telzey Amberdon
(tv) Col. Boyington
Thomas Magnum
James Bond

And many others.
I guess I don’t see what the big deal is. Movies and (many) books are about escapism, fantasy and wish-fulfillment. It just so happens that sometimes the author’s wishes don’t mesh up with ours. In which case, maybe it’s time to find another author/screenwriter.

[Chipper]

I think Endgame will truly be the end of the MCU in a mostly non-converged form. They started it in Homecoming with how MJ’s character was portrayed (so woke). Brie could ruin Captain Marvel, regardless of any convergence of the movie. I think they will continue to spiral.