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The Mum Made of TWO Women
The Sun [UK] ^ | November 13, 2003 | Brian Flynn

Posted on 11/13/2003 6:24:42 PM PST by quidnunc

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To: Capt. Canuck
Digressing, I'll have you know that I have a worn out, much enjoyed inaugural Captain Canuck comic book residing in my comic collection.
81 posted on 11/14/2003 9:58:35 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
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To: concerned about politics
Wow. There was a girl in high school that had two viginas. She said she could have sex yet still be a virgin. She would be right. She could save the other one for her wedding night, I guess.""


Are you serious?!?!?!
82 posted on 11/14/2003 9:58:58 AM PST by immykidsmom
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To: concerned about politics
Wow. There was a girl in high school that had two viginas. She said she could have sex yet still be a virgin. She would be right. She could save the other one for her wedding night, I guess.""


Are you serious?!?!?!
83 posted on 11/14/2003 10:01:25 AM PST by immykidsmom
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To: 11B3
It wasn't an ectopic pregnancy? Ew.
84 posted on 11/14/2003 10:01:55 AM PST by rintense
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To: grizzfan
Thanks Grizzfan.
85 posted on 11/14/2003 12:00:33 PM PST by MaggieMay (A blank tag is a terrible thing to waste)
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To: Maigrey
bookmark
86 posted on 11/17/2003 6:42:00 PM PST by Maigrey (Voting Member of the Rick Santorum Fan Club!)
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To: Maigrey; Alamo-Girl; backhoe; Woahhs; Victoria Delsoul; William Wallace; Bryan; aristeides; ...
I've been researching this 'chimera'. Below is what I would venture to say, if anyone is still interested in this oddity.

Our first clue to when is the different DNA identified oocytes in Jane’s ovary, and the different nuclear DNA found in various tissues of Jane’s body. Because Jane emerged as one whole neonate, without two belly buttons, we surmise that combining of Jane’s DNA and her twins DNA likely occurred following the formation of two different morula that combined shortly after hatching from separate zona pellucida that carried them to the mother’s uterus ... two ‘hatchlings’ combined into one blastocyst, with one placental organ sustaining one blastocystic cavity and one umbilical vesicle.

Using more technical terms, Jane is the result of two different sets of pluripotent stem cells that mixed very early in development. During a more generalized methylation process of stem cell cascading, some tissue lines from one genome cancelled out a duplicate construction process in the twin genome, so that organs of differing genetic blueprints developed alongside each other. Because Jane has her oocytes and a twin’s oocytes contained within her ovary—without the twin’s genome being identified by Jane’s immune system as ‘not me’—we may surmise that the direction of organ development allowed the chromosomes (on gene number 6) of both genomes to exist ‘peacefully’ in the construction of Jane’s immune system ... her twin’s cells have histocompatibility with her immune system, so her immune system recognizes the twin’s molecular marker identity as ‘also me’. Jane is the combination of her and her maternal twin, not an identical twin at fertilization.

A situation similar to Jane’s can occur if one twin donates an organ such as a kidney to its sibling … if the immune systems are a close enough match, the organ will not be rejected by the receiver of the organ donation and anti-rejection drugs will not be needed. [Such a close match is extremely rare unless the twins are identical; but if identical, the twins would have emerged from a single first zygote, and Jane is the merging of individual genomes from two separate zygotes because she has non-identical chromosomal DNA co-existing within her body. When we discuss human cloning, the tissue rejection issue will be central.] Jane’s transplantation process occurred at Jane’s earliest age in utero and involved many organ and tissue systems! Recall the wording from Dr. Jerome Lejeune regarding the early methylation of stem cells, from totipotent to pluripotent to multipotent: “... progressively at each division, this methylation is erased and replaced. And progressively cells learn by a cascade of reaction to specialize. So that one will make nails, another will make the brain, another will make the liver and another will make the bones and another will make the muscle.”

What makes Jane a chimera is the existence of two different genomes existing side-by-side in one functioning organism. At this point some will assert that ‘because Jane is the reality of two different genomes, then before the two genomes thoroughly combined, there were no individuals in embryonic state, just embryonic stem cells.’ We would reply that from the first division of cells by two separate zygotes in two separate zona pellucida, having two separate genomes from the same common father and mother, two individuals developed to the point where one was absorbed into the construction project for one vehicle of organs the once-separate then combined genomes accomplished. We would note also that the two sets of pluripotent stem cells worked in competition and in concert during the entire embryo age of Jane’s embryoid construction. Finally we would cite chimera individuals created through organ transplants.

87 posted on 11/22/2003 2:57:08 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: PatrickHenry; RJCogburn
ping to #87
88 posted on 11/22/2003 2:58:54 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN
Very interesting read. Thank you. :-)
89 posted on 11/22/2003 3:01:26 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: quidnunc
Sorry ol' boy, should 've pinged you to this also, since you started the thread.
90 posted on 11/22/2003 3:10:03 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: RadioAstronomer
Evenin' RA!

The first thought that occurs with many reading the articles is, ‘what if the children had been born through in vitro fertilization’! Can you imagine the conundrum lawyers could have constructed from the situation, upon learning there is different nuclear DNA and mitochondrial DNA in the children than the woman who bore those children? And as legal appeals create legal precedent, imagine what the impact would be on criminal cases where DNA identification is used as evidence to convict or exonerate! It boggles the mind. How could a defense attorney or prosecutor ever explain enough basic biology and embryology for all the jurors to understand the possibilities? Without a jury of Embryologists, perhaps the prosecutor would present the biological facts and the defense attorney would then cite the exceptions. ... Or worse, the defense attorney would cite the facts and try to confuse the jury, only to leave the poor prosecutor at a loss to explain why the differences didn’t create reasonable doubt!

91 posted on 11/22/2003 3:17:28 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Junior
As a Catholic, this makes me wonder about the "ensouled at conception" idea. Does this woman have two souls?

Does that mean she can sell one of them and still go to Heaven?

92 posted on 11/22/2003 3:19:55 PM PST by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: MHGinTN

Ya gotta love Free Republic. Where else does the guy start out with zona pellucidas and umbilicle vesicles, and then say, "Using more technical terms..."

I admit it, I read the whole thing. And I probably learned something, although I'm not sure what. I think it's that Jane is lucky to be alive and well-formed, because there were a lot of things that could have gone wrong there, but didn't. In any case, it's stuff like this that makes Free Republic great. No matter what happens, we have at least one expert on staff.

93 posted on 11/22/2003 3:30:06 PM PST by Nick Danger (With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.)
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To: MHGinTN
Evening back :-)

Sheesh! What a mess that could turn into.
94 posted on 11/22/2003 3:30:48 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: xm177e2
"Does this woman have two souls?" ... I read somewhere once that Elvis had a twin who was still-born. I suppose this is similar, the twin is dead but the tissues from the twin's 'organ transplantation' still live on.
95 posted on 11/22/2003 3:31:10 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Nick Danger
I think it's that Jane is lucky to be alive and well-formed, because there were a lot of things that could have gone wrong there

You said it! I could not agree more. However, I am not a biologist, so I am not sure my opinion counts here. :-)

96 posted on 11/22/2003 3:33:08 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: Nick Danger
Ooops! Sorry about that, I'm certainly no expert. Oddly enough, I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night either. Oh well, perhaps it's not a communicable ailment this babblespeak ...
97 posted on 11/22/2003 3:39:49 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: 2nd amendment mama; A2J; Alouette; aposiopetic; attagirl; axel f; Balto_Boy; Blue Scourge; ...
ProLife Ping!

If anyone wants on or off my ProLife Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.

98 posted on 11/22/2003 3:54:10 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Pre-empt the third murder attempt-- Pray for Terry Schiavo!)
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To: MHGinTN
It would be very interesting to see how her brain developed. Is it all from one twin, or is it a combination? Does her left side know what her right side is up to? Do her eyes always work in sync? Can each eye read a different page at the same time? Can she hear and comprehend two different conversations, one through each ear? Is she ambidextrous? Lots of questions. No answers. Hey, for all I know I may be partly my own twin!

[Chimera-shift]

Hmmmm. I don't recall writing the above post. What's going on here?

99 posted on 11/22/2003 4:17:57 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: quidnunc
"Five years ago doctors in Edinburgh discovered a test-tube chimera who looked like a boy but had female reproductive organs. Other chimeras have shown outward signs such as eyes of different colours."

Wonder if this is what accounts for hermaphrodites.

100 posted on 11/22/2003 4:22:46 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.")
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