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Case Closed: a letter to Gerald Posner (re: Kennedy assassination)
AMNation.com ^ | 11/23/03 | Lawrence Auster

Posted on 11/25/2003 1:51:37 PM PST by veronica

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To: Az Joe
I know for a fact that you have NO evidence that there was any conspiracy.

Well, I don't know about that. We had Nellie Connally on the radio here in Abilene last week and she recounted the events of that day. She reiterated what this testimony says. John Connally did not get hit with the shot that went through Kennedy's throat area. Whether or not there was a conspiracy, her testimony makes the single bullet theory untenable.

Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before.
I could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love you."
Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance, no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right, he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
I never again----
Mr. DULLES. To the right was into your arms more or less?
Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not.

You can see the sequence in the Zapruder film. Everything she says is true. http://www.jmasland.com/z_color/

61 posted on 11/25/2003 2:50:08 PM PST by AndrewC (Democracy is about voting. Even Dictatorships vote. NO FILIBUSTERS!!!!)
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To: veronica
One hundered years ago it was The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, today it is the JFK conspiracy theories - the same gullibility, the same desire to believe that a kabal of evil conspirators controls the our collective destiny. No different from the fear of thunder and lightning by our ancestors. Absurd!

Here, you conspiracy freaks: the Build-A-Burger chain controls the world! Happy?


62 posted on 11/25/2003 2:57:49 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Far out, man, heavy!)
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To: ibtheman
I believe you.I have read others who say the same thing.I just clicked on the link to Posner's interview.Very interesting explanation of Kennedy's body movements,the film and Connolly's movement.
63 posted on 11/25/2003 3:00:13 PM PST by MEG33
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To: Az Joe
Those of you who do not believe Oswald acted alone, I have not seen the evidence of this, but
I am open to pursuasion, please
someone who has studied this and beleives in a conspiracy list for me your reasons in order of significance. If people on this forum could refute or cast doubt on those reasons would you change your opinion? If they can not maybe I will change mine.
64 posted on 11/25/2003 3:03:48 PM PST by Jonah Johansen
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To: MEG33
"The assassination of a President is so terrible and so threatening,so detrimental to the Nation that people don't want to believe someone like Oswald could have accomplished it, as he was so insignificant otherwise."

Well, that simple explanation makes sense, of course. But if you think about it; the difference between the success and failure of the 'perfect crime' ususally hinges on a 'devil of a detail'.

Man/made disasters (fires in California for example) have been the result not a great plan gone awry or for that matter a 'mission accomplished'; but rather the devastation hinged on the most stupid/selfish/inane of choices. That is life.

We almost lost a couple of states to fire a few years ago. The existence and magnitude of this fire seemed to deserve a reason at least equally grand - an 'act of God' or an act of evil would have been more acceptable than the reality.

As it was, we had to accept the petty truth - a woman Forest Ranger decided she would feel better if she burned her boyfriends love letters in the mountains they used to enjoy together.

But the fact that the 'great' can often be generated by the extremely simple; does not make it a 'law of the universe'.

Conspiracies DO happen. The conspiracy can be as reasonably planned to create a horrific event, as they can be reasonably assumed afterward.

It is also true, that people are more comfortable with the known vs the unknown. Putting a name on it - being able to 'wrap your mind around it'; allows many unacceptable or confounding elements of life to be dealt with efficiently.

For some that comfort is the 'Warren Report'; for others, there is more comfort in the reasonable challenge of the 'conspiracy'.

65 posted on 11/25/2003 3:06:01 PM PST by cricket
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To: cricket
I found no comfort in it.I was in Dallas the day it occurred. I have accepted that the conspiracy theories will continue.I try not to get nervous over assassination attempts but I know it only takes luck and one determined shooter.It is a miracle that Reagan survived and Squeaky Frome was stopped before she shot Ford.
66 posted on 11/25/2003 3:19:08 PM PST by MEG33
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Comment #67 Removed by Moderator

To: MEG33
Here is what I would like to know: If everything happened the way the Warren Report said it did and if there are no details being swept under the rug, why are the records from the Warren Commission still sealed until 2029? Cripes, it was 40 years ago. The cold war is over. If there is nothing to hide, then why have they not released everything?

68 posted on 11/25/2003 3:26:28 PM PST by Orangedog
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To: Orangedog
Uh, oh, az, more good questions.
69 posted on 11/25/2003 3:30:06 PM PST by norraad
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To: Steve_Seattle
Eyewitnesses saw Oswald in the window of the TSBD as he was doing the shooting; several co-workers were directly below him as he fired - they heard the shots right over their head and heard the shell casings drop on the floor.

I won't pretend to have any answers, but I have a whole lot of questions. Maybe they might seem "irrelavent" to some people, but details are my job, so I guess I'm just wired that way....

One thing that just doesn't seem right...there were three shell casings found by the window on the 6th floor by the open window. Oswald was supposed to have fired three shots in about 8 seconds, stash the gun, and get the hell out of there. If he was in such a hurry, and knew that his third shot took the president's head off, why did he bother to eject the third spent shell casing?

70 posted on 11/25/2003 3:33:45 PM PST by Orangedog
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To: Jonah Johansen
Those of you who do not believe Oswald acted alone, I have not seen the evidence of this, but I am open to pursuasion, please

I don't know if there was a conspiracy. What I do know is that Nellie Connally's testimony and the Zapruder film make the Warren report's sequence of events impossible. Read Nellie Connally's testimony as I have posted. Then look at the Zapruder sequence on the site that I have shown. Here is the link Zapruder sequence

What I do is click on the first frame to show it in my browser, then I change the frame number one by one until I get the seqeunce I want. Then it is easy to use the backspace key and the forward button to go forward or backward at the speed I wish. Yes it is evident that Kennedy's head does go forward a few inches as the head shot impacts. However, the head also torques to the right and down as his chin goes into his chest. As this happens his body is thrown backwards and up into the seat. It appears as if he is lifted up out of the seat. His right arm flails limply up then collapses down. He got shot from the front.

71 posted on 11/25/2003 3:34:05 PM PST by AndrewC (Democracy is about voting. Even Dictatorships vote. NO FILIBUSTERS!!!!)
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To: Az Joe; veronica
In "Case Open", Harold Weisberg neatly picks apart Gerald Posner's thesis of Lee Harvey Oswald's guilt in the assassination of J.F.K. In doing so, he also exposes many of Posner's somewhat underhanded misappropriation of others' research; factual distortions; and outright dishonesties (whether intentional or not can be left up to the reader to decide). Though poorly edited, this book singlehandedly debunks the "Lone Gunman Theory" and tells us much about the mainstream media's continuing desire to force the "official" version of the truth on the people, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Though Weisberg's writing style is difficult at times, it is easy to see that he is far more intimately familiar with the facts of the case than Posner. I wouldn't recommend this book for those not familiar with the more complex and minute details surrounding the assassination (Summers' "Conspiracy" or Lane's "Rush To Judgement" would better serve as introductories to the whole affair), but as a total refutation to Posner's much-hailed work, it scores, taking down the Warren Report one more time in the process.

-amazon review-
72 posted on 11/25/2003 3:34:54 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but FRs flying monkey squad brings out the Rickenbacker in me.)
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To: iamfarouk
What frame do you think Connally is hit? Depending on who one believes, the first evidence of Connally reacting to being hit occurs at:

And why do you think it's important that Connally is holding his hat in his RIGHT hand? If you think that he dropped his hat after getting hit, you're wrong. The testimony from his wife is that he held onto his hat in his RIGHT hand all the way to the hospital.

In 1976 the Itek Corporation, specialists in photographic analysis examined the film and five photo analysts all concluded independently that somewhere between Z-223 and Z-226 there are signs of the beginning of a significant change in the governor's position and appearance.

Thus your argument that Connally reacts a full two seconds after Kennedy is shot has no basis in fact.

73 posted on 11/25/2003 3:36:18 PM PST by PMCarey
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To: AndrewC
He was not shot from the front.
75 posted on 11/25/2003 3:40:40 PM PST by MEG33
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To: Az Joe
Amen
77 posted on 11/25/2003 3:44:44 PM PST by philo
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To: PMCarey
Thus your argument that Connally reacts a full two seconds after Kennedy is shot has no basis in fact

The basis in fact is that the wrist wound was the least of Connally's problems. He had a golf-ball sized hole blown in his chest. He had a sucking chest wound. His wife saved his life unwittingly. As she drew him down out of the line of fire she pulled his arm over the chest wound. She also placed her arm over her husbands arm and thus sealed the open wound. She did not know to do this, it was just an accident of the event. She was clear. She saw Kennedy's hands at his throat, later she heard the shot that hit her husband. Now rifle bullets travel faster than sound, but she had already heard the shot that hit Kennedy as this was what caused her to look back at him. In any event a sucking chest wound is not something one can ignore. Look at the film. While Kennedy has his hands at his throat Connally is turning forward. He faces forward then turns back to his right. It is some time into this turn that he is hit, as described by his wife. The film shows exactly that sequence.

78 posted on 11/25/2003 3:48:11 PM PST by AndrewC (Democracy is about voting. Even Dictatorships vote. NO FILIBUSTERS!!!!)
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To: MEG33
He was not shot from the front.

That is known as an assertion. I believe otherwise.

79 posted on 11/25/2003 3:49:11 PM PST by AndrewC (Democracy is about voting. Even Dictatorships vote. NO FILIBUSTERS!!!!)
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To: iamfarouk
All I am saying is the physical evidence clearly shows that when Kennedy is already holding his neck, Connally is still holding his Stetson up above door level while turning to his right

But his hand has to be in his lap for the bullet to hit him in the wrist.

I'll let an expert from Itek answer (from their 1976 report):

"I observe a rotation of the Governor's body from right to left beginning at frame 223. It isn't obvious that this is significant relative to the study objective, however I also observe what I would consider an involuntary and unusual motion of his right hand and arm at 225. Before 225, his hand is hidden from Zapruder's view, down below the edge of the door. At 225-226 it can be seen to travel repidly upward until it is about level with his chin in 228. From 228-230 he flips his hat rapidly. At 229 it appears upside down in his hand with the thin edge of the brim extending toward Zapruder. By 230 the hat has flipped so that one can now see into it. This all takes place within less than 1/3 of a second so it would appear to be somewhat unusual."

The point is that at 224 we don't know if Connally's hand is in his lap or not. We know that at 224 it located below (not above as you claim) the edge of the door and moves quickly upward at 225-226. Thus your argument doesn't have any basis in fact.

80 posted on 11/25/2003 3:55:16 PM PST by PMCarey
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