Turkey's Islamist monster

National Post ^ | November 27 2003 | Amir Taheri

[knighthawk]

Ping

[Asclepius]

Both Iraq and hatred for the United States are used as pretext by Islamist groups who wish to destroy Erdogan's government because they believe it is not " Islamic enough."

We have lots of Republicans and conservatives like that. Bush has betrayed us etc., etc. The WSJ and WT are communist fronts etc. California's new governor is a Rino etc., etc.

[PoisedWoman]

The terrorist attacks that have hit Turkey have little to do with Iraq or even rising hatred for the United States. Both Iraq and hatred for the United States are used as pretext by Islamist groups who wish to destroy Erdogan's government because they believe it is not " Islamic enough."

Yes indeed. Taheri is right on the money. I hope he's correct that most Turks are leaning further toward secularism since the Istanbul bombings. We need to keep this exemplary secular Muslim country as an ally and friend to the West.

[Valin]

We have lots of Republicans and conservatives like that. Bush has betrayed us etc., etc. The WSJ and WT are communist fronts etc. California's new governor is a Rino etc., etc.

You mean it's not true? :-)

The problem with some here is anything less than 110% agreement with them means a complete sellout.

[Allan]

The world and the media suddenly has discovered
that there are terrorists in Turkey who set off bombs
and it finally has made the headlines
because
of course
it must be Al Qaeda.

When I was in Istanbul in 1999
a large shopping center
a mile from where I was staying
was destroyed by a bomb.

I don't think it was al Qaeda.

Taheri is extremely well-informed about the situation in Turkey.

My Turkish relatives all would cheer to see Erdogan hanged.

They may yet get the chance.

[Allan]

ping

[a_Turk]

Which external Islamist interests are in competition in Turkey? What do they see as their minor and major prizes? How do they think they might prove their worthiness to the Muslim masses?

What is more impressive to those people who hate America and Israel? To collapse the twin towers or to put a price on Salman Rushdie's head? To Bomb and destroy American and Jewish interests and targets, or to send a shipment of weapons and ammo to Arafat, only to be discovered before the delivery could be complete?

This is an age old competition between Sunni and Shia. Both have poured milions into Turkey to influence her people, both dream of flying the cursed flags of their dominant states, Iran vs Saudi Arabia, there.

Who can better serve the cause of Islam and defeat the infidel? Who can better impress the masses of Islam? Will it be Iran with their nukes? Or will it be the Saudis with their pukes?

Perhaps it even makes sense to harbor the competition to display a certain solidarity. Perhaps it will win Sunni hearts and minds for the Shia to give the embattled Sunni leaders shelter.

That's the oversimplified view in the East. Be informed: these devils are neither Shia nor Sunni. But that's quite another matter..

---

The Turkish police have determined that the organization contracted by Al Qaida in Turkey is called "Beyyiat El Imam" (Union of Imams). Two of the groups leaders have been apprehended in an operation day before yesterday in Van. They belong to the Salafi sect.. The names have not yet been released to the press.

The Saudi leader, Zarkawi, who contracted them is said to be hiding in Iran.

And the BITCH-MADE EU still has not put the IBDA/C on their list of terror organizations.

[nutmeg]

bump

[DB]

Not quite the same.

When Republicans start murdering RINO's you'll have a point.

Until then will...

[Consort]

[PoisedWoman]

Why do Turks hate Americans? I was in Turkey ten years ago and was warmly welcomed all over the country as the American I most obviously was. And I was traveling with a VERY Jewish fellow who encountered nary a frown. What's going on?

[a_Turk]

Uh, I didn't say that Turks hate Americans.

There's a certain population of Arabs who hate Americans and Jews. Certain groups, Iran and Saudi Arabia seek to impress those people in order to trump each other.

That's why you and Israel are targets.

The same competition is evident in Iran's and Saudi Arabia's meddling in Turkish internal affairs.

As Saudi Araba is diminished, Iran recruits their Salafi leaders. Just another move to beat the competition by showing "compassion" and "Muslim solidarity." Beating the Sunni Saudi hate machine is strengthening the Shia Ayetullah's hand.

See what I mean? You're just a means to an end in that game. Their real point is to get control of each other's followers, always has been.

[PoisedWoman]

See what I mean? You're just a means to an end in that game. Their real point is to get control of each other's followers, always has been;

So bizarre it sounds like science fiction.

Christianity has many denominations with some real differences but I cannot begin to imagine such childish rivalry nor destructive skullduggery on an ongoing basis.

I wonder why the vast majority of Muslims aren't clamoring for free markets, business opportunities, topnotch secular educations in their own countries, and SPORTS--activities that give people a sense of hope, aspiration, self-esteem, POSITIVE rather than negative goals. They could still be Muslims. Or could they?

[a_Turk]

>> I wonder why the vast majority of Muslims aren't clamoring for free markets, business opportunities, topnotch secular educations in their own countries, and SPORTS--activities that give people a sense of hope, aspiration, self-esteem, POSITIVE rather than negative goals. They could still be Muslims. Or could they?

That's the case in Turkey. I can't speak for the other population, however.

[SauronOfMordor]

There is a problem with assuming that Islamists will be your allies against Leftism and socialism: Islamism and socialism are natural allies. Both ideologies favor centralized state control of all aspects of peoples lives.

It matters not whether the centralized controllers are called "comrade" or "Imam"

[a_Turk]

>> Christianity has many denominations with some real differences but I cannot begin to imagine such childish rivalry nor destructive skullduggery on an ongoing basis.

Uh, history is full of examples.. The Iron Curtain was mainly along religious lines. The breakup of Yugoslavia had Catholic-Orthodox strife with population exchanges/migrations. The Russian landing at the airport at Kosovo-Pristina, beating the US to it was along these same lines..

Granted, you don't have Jean Paul and Bartholomew literally at each other's throats today, but there was a time when the leaders of Christian denominations ruthlessly murdered each other in competition for each other's domain..

The Catholic-Orthodox rivalry was one of the major enablers of the Ottoman empire to expand westward, for example, along with the black plague which preceeded our waves of hordes.

[Mortimer Snavely]

"...there was a time when the leaders of Christian denominations ruthlessly murdered each other in competition for each other's domain.. "

At the end of it all religious hatreds had to give way to nationalism.

If you can get a copy of C.V. Wedgwood's The Thirty Years War, you'll find a most readable account of how this came about.

What's notable for the Turkish student of history and human behavior is that though there were a few Tamerlane types in central Europe during the 17th Century, unfortunately, there weren't any Nasreddin Hoca types.

[zandtar]

I was in Turkey ten years ago and was warmly welcomed all over the country as the American I most obviously was.

I agree, I was in Turkey a little over two years ago and it was a wonderful place with wonderful people. I'd love the opportunity to return and visit the sites I missed.

Why do Turks hate Americans?

Remember, much of this is coming from the liberal press. You can find American's who hate Americans, and write it up so it appears to be the majority. Just look at the New York Slimes.