Bush's gay-marriage tack risks clash with his base (and a poll)

usa today ^ | 12/17/03

[scripter]

The problem is you are incapable of dealing with issues separately because you have dedicated yourself to fighting the agenda.

You apparently don't see or don't agree with the bigger picture as we see it. That doesn't mean anything other than we disagree. Yet everything we say is supported by numerous sources and everything you say is supported by you and you alone. I prefer many sources stating the same thing over anything you say without a single supporting reference.

We see the bigger picture.

[scripter]

You are slamming an entire group, millions of people, because of an agenda some extremists push. In the US we believe in individual rights and responsibilities. Not excoriating people because someone like them is extreme.

Nice try but I'm not slamming anybody. I'm stating facts from sources you don't even attempt to refute. AIDS discriminates against homosexual behavior. That's a fact.

[scripter]

Last time I looked, blacks commit an inordinate amount of murder per capita. Now we can yell all day about how violent blacks are or we can treat them as individuals so that the guy down the street can live peacefully and not have to worry about you shouting murderer when he leaves the house.

Last time I looked, blacks couldn't stop being blacks while thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle. You're always building then attacking a straw man argument.

[breakem]

The black argument is not straw man. It doesn't matter what they can stop doing. The point is you don't excoriate all blacks because they have a high murder rate and you don't excoriate all homosexuals because of their diesease rate. Logic 101.

This is the US and people have individual rights and should be treated as individuals.

[scripter]

RESEARCH. You pride yourselves in your links to various studies and research. S says I can’t refute it with evidence.

You haven't so far. You haven't even tried.

I mentioned a quote that lj used and the 73% child molester study you guys link to. I have asked questions about each. If you can’t answer questions about the study or the quote then it doesn’t stand up.

We've answered your questions but you either don't like the answers or stop responding.

You’re just using numbers because you can throw them on these threads and superficial people will adopt them. You are being intellectually dishonest.

I don't use numbers. I've researched the issue myself and believe what I post is accurate. You have never refuted anything. I don't know how may times I've said this: Once you've demonstrated something I've posted is incorrect I'll stop posting it.

[breakem]

I've read your replies. I gave you an F+. You can't explain away your problems with the studies you use in light of my information on research. You continue to lump all homosexuals together.

Your friend John O finally admitted he just wants all homosexuals banned. Why not cleanse yourself and admit your goals.

You flamed out and turned out not to be a worthy opponent. I'm sadly disappointed.

Now I'm leaving so you can claim victory to your friends and continue your crusade.

Unamerican, intellectually dishonest, and fanatical. I leave you to your crusade.

[scripter]

In order for research to be useful it has to be reliable and valid. Reliability means that the results have been repeated in subsequent trials, preferably by other independent sources. Validity means it was executed with proper formalities, supported by objective truth, and has the power to overcome doubt. The ones I’ve seen so far do not meet either of these standards and your inability to answer simple questions does not invite the questioner to read more studies.

The ones [you've] seen? Get specific. Which study?

[scripter]

Sigh. You're running away, yet again.

That's your standard MO. Unable to refute or discredit anything we've said you run away when we get to specifics.

[ShadowDancer]

that he doesn't see that they threaten to devalue the real thing,"

If someone else's marriage is enough to devalue your own, you have bigger problems than you think.

[scripter]

Of course it matters if homosexuals can stop their behavior. That's the key to the bigger picture that you can't see.

[breakem]

STOP WHINNING! read 102 again. I qouted a stat from a strudy you linked too. I also pointed out problems you have with most of your studies you link too that allsow us to refer to them a psuedoscience.

I don't want to talk to you any more for now. So try to limit your response to 1 reply so you don't clutter up my comments page.

[scripter]

STOP WHINNING! read 102 again.

Sheesh. Make up your mind. You're leaving. You're giving me an F+, you said I flamed out, I'm not worthy, you're disappointed and now you want more? Sheesh.

I qouted a stat from a strudy you linked too.

What study?

I also pointed out problems you have with most of your studies you link too that allsow us to refer to them a psuedoscience.

And I'll keep asking: what study? Get specific.

I don't want to talk to you any more for now.

I would imagine getting your clock cleaned on what, a daily basis now would have that effect.

[scripter]

So try to limit your response to 1 reply so you don't clutter up my comments page.

I'm sure you don't like the way I rip your arguments apart, but I'll continue to break your different arguments apart in separate posts as I see fit.

[DrDeb]

I try!

[little jeremiah]

Unamerican, intellectually dishonest, and fanatical.

Breakem, breakem, breakem.

Knak just posted ten or so relevant studies showing the higher prevalence of child molestation among the homosexual population. Why on earth, since you think that we are all wrong, can't you come up with studies disproving the above studies and numbers?

All you can do is rant and rave, attack, call people liars, fanatics and so on, but you cannot disprove a single thing anyone of us say.

Can't you see what you're doing?

[knak]

You can't explain away your problems with the studies you use in light of my information on research.

What info on research have you provided? I give you an F-.

[Kevin Curry]

The point is you don't excoriate all blacks because they have a high murder rate and you don't excoriate all homosexuals because of their diesease rate.

A black skin, being a passive non-behavioral characteristic, does not and cannot predispose its possessor to commit murder.

A homosexual drive, being an behavioral characteristic that seeks actively to express itself, predisposes its possessor to enage in filthy, grossly dysfunctional acts that tend to spread vile STDs.

[knak]

thanks, very well said!

[John O]

Was wondering your thoughts on how homosexuals can come out of a heterosexual marriage. Were they recruited on the side. Did the parents turn their head.

People become involved in homosexuality (that is, develop Same-sex Attraction Disorder (SAD)) through three main traumas, Being molested or otherwise abused (normally sexual molestation but physical abuse can also lead to this disease), Having an absent or insufficient relationship with one's father, or relentless teasing by one's peers during the formative years (self-fulfilling prophecy). By far the most prevalent is molestation.

So it's highly likely that the kids were recruited on the side. It's quite possible that the parents knew nothing about the abuse going on (mine didn't). It's true that the parents failed to protect their children properly.

Help me out on your viewpoint. On a personal note, would you describe the thought process or the day that you made the decision to be heterosexual?

Let me try to explian this to you again in simpler terms.

One never chooses to be heterosexual. That is the normal state of being. Everyone is born heterosexual and they remain that way unless (or until) some trauma happens that they don't, can't or won't recover from.

Look at it this way. A transexual person with XY chromosomes is born male. That is the default. He remains male until some trauma happens (he undergoes surgery and hormone therapy). He never chooses to be male, he chooses to deviate from the default.

Likewise human sexuality is fixed. A mentally healthy human will always be heterosexual.

Interested in the decision process for this so I can warn my neighbors that they are really hurting their kid. Maybe they'll abandon the kid or put it up for adoption. For the good of the kid of course.

That would be a very good thing to do. The child is at immediate risk due to poor role models and no relatiuonship with her father. (now they may see another manifestation of the no-father problem. In girls it sometimes result in high levels of promiscuity as the girl tries to "find" her father through contact with other men)

I strongly recommend reading the database. (But then you might be forced to open your eyes and it may be painful to you

[John O]

I hope homosexuals have more impulse control than you. Is there a study on that?

Actually they have far less. I seem to remember seeing somewhere in the database a study on this. You may want to read the database to find out for sure. (sorry but with the Christmas season being short this year I don't have the time to run it down for you.)