Bush's gay-marriage tack risks clash with his base (and a poll)

usa today ^ | 12/17/03

[John O]

My observation demonstrates that most "promiscuous" girls are from straight families. Is there some evidence that supports your statement?

While I'm certain that the data exists somewhere (we may even have it in the database) this item is mostly from personal experience and interpolation from other studies.

One of the causes of SAD in males is a lacking relationship with one's father. The reasoning behind this is that the child is seeking the love from his father that he should have had but didn't, so he seeks 'love' from other men. Likewise a girl will seek a man's love to replace the missing father's love.

I am assuming that a child raised by lesbians will either hate men (since her only role models reject men) and become lesbian or be highly promiscuous seeking her father's love.

I've found from my personal experience (years ago when I was single and sexually immoral) that girls with no fathers were by far the easiest lays. So much so that I actively sought out girls from fatherless homes to date. (as I said, I was immoral)

IF I come across the documentation for this (and remember) I will ping you to it. If you can show me documentation proving this wrong please ping me to it

[John O]

That means there 4 million kids more or less who have been molested with no convictions. If this is true there is a pandemic of crime that is unaddressed. Why haven’t police groups or DAs spoken out on this most serious issue?

I find this very easy to believe. In just my circle of friends and acquaintances I can think of at least 6 men who were molested as boys. Fortunately all but one were able to overcome this trauma. (we're still praying for and trying to reach out to the last one.)

I've found that being molested is not something that a boy or man is eager to talk about. It carries a shame with it even though we did nothing wrong. So I'm not surprised that people don't report it. The man who molested me molested at least 8 others that I can think of. Probably a whole lot more. To the best of my knowledge he's still free. (could be dead, haven't heard of him in years and years. Hopefully he got saved and changed first)

[John O]

me->"Homosexual behavior should also be illegal (and will eventually be returned to that status)"

you->You've just made the definitive statement of your position. What else needs to be said. I had hoped you might be part of a dialogue which would influence how you cite research and speak of homosexuals, but I can see you are blinded.

Thank you for your honesty. It is important that other know your true motivation.

You know nothing of my true motivation, or rather you know it but choose to ignore it.

If I had said that murder should be illegal, or rape should be illegal then you'd have no problem with it. How about adultery? It should be illegal also. All of these are damaging behaviors (not characteristics) that harm all they come in contact with.

The problem with homosexual behavior is that it harms everyone it touches and everyone who comes in contact with it.

For the safety and health of our society we declare some behaviors unacceptable. Homosexual behavior has shown itself to be one that should be outlawed.

Now my motivation is to save the people the pain and agony that I went through. To save children from being molested and to save the SAD from the life they live. SADs have a lower life expectancy than smokers, have more domestic violence in their 'households', have more disease both physical and mental. But you know all this already. We've posted the studies and the database is open for all to read.

Your motivation appears to be to keep these people tyrapped in their sickness and to keep getting more children molested.

[John O]

I usually preface my comments on marriage by saying government should get out of the business, however since they're in then it should be open to all taxpayers.

It is. Any person in this country has the right to marry any person of the opposite sex that will have them

[John O]

Your friend John O finally admitted he just wants all homosexuals banned

Prove it or apologize.

[John O]

The point is you don't excoriate all blacks because they have a high murder rate and you don't excoriate all homosexuals because of their diesease rate. Logic 101.

Your error is that you are comparing dissimilar populations. Being black is a characteristic and homosexuality is a disease.

Blacks have a common characteristic (being black) which does not affect their behavior. A black man raised in a suburban or rural environment acts for the most part like a white guy with a good tan. He is not part of the criminal class and can't be included in it just because he superficially looks like them.

Those who practice homosexual behavior have no common characteristics, only a common behavior. It's been shown that those who practice homosexuality will also practice child abuse. Or according to one study 73% of them will.

Since an unacceptably high percentage of those who have this disease (SAD) also molest, then we can safely say that the behavior is unacceptable.

A better population for your original premise to compare 'homosexuals' to would be murderers. They are both behaviors and both behaviors have 'side effect behaviors'. Murderers are highly likely to break other laws and 'homosexuals' are highly likely to commit other perversions.

[biblewonk]

It makes me think of what it must've been like to be a politician during the suffrage movement. How many self-serving, career politicians would dare take a chance of alienating as much as half their (potential) constituents? (Answer: Zero. So, here we are.)

Dude yer killing my happy Friday.

[republicofdavis]

"I've found from my personal experience (years ago when I was single and sexually immoral) that girls with no fathers were by far the easiest lays. So much so that I actively sought out girls from fatherless homes to date."

I'll accept that premise for discussion. It does not then follow that a girl from a lesbian household would be more promiscuous than a girl from a single-mother household.

[John O]

I'll accept that premise for discussion. It does not then follow that a girl from a lesbian household would be more promiscuous than a girl from a single-mother household.

Correct. But I never said that it did. I only addressed girls being raise in lesbian households and never compared the two.

[republicofdavis]

"Correct. But I never said that it did. I only addressed girls being raise in lesbian households and never compared the two."

I know you didn't. I did. You said that the "odds are greatly in favor of the child ending up . . . highly promiscuous."

I wonder what you mean by greatly in favor (75% or more?). And is it the same percentage of highly promiscuous girls that result from single-mother households, who you so hotly pursued in your youth? If so, shouldn't you be attacking those households as well?

[scripter]

You may find this informative:

Homosexual Parenting Studies Are Flawed, Report Says

• Young girls raised by lesbians are more likely to be sexually adventurous and active than their counterparts raised by heterosexual parents.  However the sons of lesbians exhibit "an opposite pattern" and are likely to be less adventurous and active than boys raised by heterosexual households.

Gay Parenting Does Affect Children Differently, Study Finds

5. Teen-age and young adult girls raised by lesbian mothers appear to be more sexually adventurous and less chaste than girls raised by heterosexual mothers. Sons, on the other hand, were somewhat less sexually adventurous and more chaste than boys raised by heterosexuals.

Homosexual Parents: 'Hidden Study' Uncovered!!

Sex Identity

The children of homosexuals were more frequently reported to have identity problems. “Girls of gay fathers were reported to demonstrate more ‘boyish’ attitudes and behavior than girls of heterosexuals parents. Most young boys of lesbian mothers were reported to be more effeminate in their behaviour and mannerisms than boys of heterosexual parents.... In general, children of homosexual couples were described by teachers as more expressive, more effeminate (irrespective of their gender) and ‘more confused about their gender’.... (p. 26) Assessment: The Sarantakos material lends weight to the belief that being raised by homosexuals leads to gender role confusion in their children.

The above links and more are found together here:

Homosexuality and Parenting

[MEGoody]

"however since they're in then it should be open to all taxpayers."

Interesting. So a 14 year old working at McDonald's could marry a 50 year old man and his 49 year old wife, making it a three-way marriage.

[Salvation]

USA Today

Should the Constitution be amended to prevent gays from marrying?

 54.46%
Yes
 45.54%
No

Total Votes:8903

[Salvation]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

1660 The marriage covenant, by which a man and a woman form with each other an intimate communion of life and love, has been founded and endowed with its own special laws by the Creator. By its very nature it is ordered to the good of the couple, as well as to the generation and education of children. Christ the Lord raised marriage between the baptized to the dignity of a sacrament (cf. CIC, can. 1055 § 1; cf. GS 48 § 1).

---

1625 The parties to a marriage covenant are a baptized man and woman, free to contract marriage, who freely express their consent; "to be free" means:

- not being under constraint;

- not impeded by any natural or ecclesiastical law.

---

[republicofdavis]

"Young girls raised by lesbians are more likely to be sexually adventurous and active than their counterparts raised by heterosexual parents."

Very informative indeed. I can't really comment on the validity of this study, or any other study for that matter.

I wonder if when they say "raised by heterosexual parents" they mean both parents or if that includes single-parent households. I know that John O said earlier that the girls without dads were the sluts. I assume they weren't daughters of lesbians.

[John O]

And is it the same percentage of highly promiscuous girls that result from single-mother households, who you so hotly pursued in your youth? If so, shouldn't you be attacking those households as well?

Don't really know. Not germaine to the discussion actually.

I do campaign against single parents homes. The breakdown of the two married parent home is the cause of almost all the ills that strike our youth today. I am against divorce for any reason other than adultery or abandonment (which falls under adultery in my opinion. And before you bring it up abuse falls under there also. Adultery is putting anything other than the Lord before your spouse)

Single mothers should place their babies up for adoption. Abortion is murder and should not legally exist.

[John O]

I assume they weren't daughters of lesbians.

Only one was. She the easiest of the bumch. Sure thing from the very first phone call. (Of course this doesn't constitute a formal study)

Let me also caveat before this gets too out of hand. Every daughter of a single parent home or of lesbians may not be promiscuous. That's just the way to bet.

[republicofdavis]

"I do campaign against single parents homes. The breakdown of the two married parent home is the cause of almost all the ills that strike our youth today. I am against divorce for any reason other than adultery or abandonment (which falls under adultery in my opinion. And before you bring it up abuse falls under there also. Adultery is putting anything other than the Lord before your spouse)"

Can't disagree with anything here.

[scripter]

I'm glad you found it informative - IMO folks without an agenda other than the truth will always find the information helpful. I just re-read the three links and didn't find any additional information regarding the heterosexual parents question you raised.

[breakem]

The construct of the analogy is not dependent on similarities between blacks and homosexuals in the cause or type of behavior. You can continue to list differences, they are nor basic to the point involved. You do remember the point. People have rights and responsibilities as individuals and are not denied them because of the behavior of others in the group. As a conservative, I'm sure you recognise this basic american prinicple.