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Protect Marriage Without Constitutional Amendment
NewsMax.com ^ | Friday, Dec. 26, 2003 | Mike Thompson

Posted on 12/27/2003 3:08:49 PM PST by Federalist 78

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Federalist No. 81 ``The authority of the proposed Supreme Court of the United States, which is to be a separate and independent body, will be superior to that of the legislature. The power of construing the laws according to the SPIRIT of the Constitution, will enable that court to mould them into whatever shape it may think proper; especially as its decisions will not be in any manner subject to the revision or correction of the legislative body. This is as unprecedented as it is dangerous. In Britain, the judicial power, in the last resort, resides in the House of Lords, which is a branch of the legislature; and this part of the British government has been imitated in the State constitutions in general. The Parliament of Great Britain, and the legislatures of the several States, can at any time rectify, by law, the exceptionable decisions of their respective courts. But the errors and usurpations of the Supreme Court of the United States will be uncontrollable and remediless.'' This, upon examination, will be found to be made up altogether of false reasoning upon misconceived fact.

Insist that Congress remove federal judical jurisdicton from Defense of Marriage Act /Public Law No: 104-199, 342-67 & 85-14 w/Clinton signature and allow each state to choose, or abstain from sodomy.

Article 3, Section 2, Clause 2 In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.
Article III, Section 2 - The Washington Times: Editorials/OP-ED In the 107th Congress (2001-2002), Congress used the authority of Article III, Section 2, clause 2 on 12 occasions to limit the jurisdiction of the federal courts.
Sen. Thomas A. Daschle, South Dakota Democrat, used the exception authority of Article III, 2.2 in order to cut some timber in South Dakota.
Reining In the Court - The New American - July 28, 2003 By simple majority vote, Congress could pass an act denying federal jurisdiction over social issues of any kind, such as abortion, pornography, and homosexuality. This would leave the state legislatures free to enact (or, in most cases, re-enact) laws on those matters reflecting the moral consensus of their constituents. This would leave the well-funded leftist network of legal agitators - the ACLU, et al. - without effective recourse, since they would have no access to their longtime allies in the federal judiciary. Rather than use the judicial system as a detour around representative government, the cultural left would have to contend, on equal terms, in state legislatures.

James Madison, His Legacy: Federalist Papers (FEDERALIST No. 51)

But it is not possible to give to each department an equal power of self-defense. In republican government, the legislative authority necessarily predominates

1 posted on 12/27/2003 3:08:50 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: Federalist 78
He is correct.

Easiest to have a simple majority vote.

But....the SENATE will turn it into a supermajority of Senators. That is why it MUST be started NOW going into an election year. It would be an awesome way to MAKE Senators stand on the side of angels FOR which of them want to be the one to say "I reject the people's opinion as to what constitute's marriage."

However, Another congress could change it, but with great difficulty.
2 posted on 12/27/2003 3:43:10 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)
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To: Federalist 78
Bump.
3 posted on 12/27/2003 4:38:26 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: Federalist 78
I doubt that a Constitutional Amendment banning nontraditional marriage will ever pass but even if it does it will be repealed within a generation or two. The younger generations overwhelming accept homosexuality. Banning their marriages will only cause the younger generations to rebel and accelerate their acceptance of homosexuality.
4 posted on 12/27/2003 4:52:30 PM PST by LPM1888 (What are the facts? Again and again and again -- what are the facts? - Lazarus Long)
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To: Federalist 78
"Two-thirds of the House and Senate must agree on the proposed amendment before submitting it to the 50 states, 38 of which must approve the change before it becomes the supreme law of the land."

38 states already have defense of marriage laws, and the big polls are showing overwhelming support for the Federal Marriage Amendment.

Our founders put sodomizers to death, and they obviously didn't even imagine that sodomizers would try to legitimize something like marriage between themselves and fight legitimate parents for custody of their children. Our founders would be rallying around this Amendment as we are.

But here's something much more interesting for y'all.

Group formed for gay Libertarians

Outright Libertarians - Issues

Outright Libertarians

Golden Gate Libertarian
Outright Libertarians Support AB205
(California Domestic Partner Rights and Responsibilities Act of 2003)


GayLiberty.org

Ah, heck, just enter "outright libertarians" in a search engine like google.com and follow the gazillion links yourself.
5 posted on 12/27/2003 5:12:44 PM PST by familyop (Essayons - motto of good, stable psychotics with a purpose)
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To: LPM1888
I doubt that a Constitutional Amendment banning nontraditional marriage will ever pass but even if it does it will be repealed within a generation or two.

There is no way it would be 'repealed'. A constiutional amendment can only be repealed by another constitutional amendment, and while opinion my shift more in favor, there will never be enough support for a constitutional amendment to allow gay marriages.

6 posted on 12/27/2003 5:14:39 PM PST by Always Right
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To: LPM1888
The younger generations overwhelming accept homosexuality. >>

Then they must be taught differently. The younger generations of Germany in 1930 overwhelmingly accepted antisemitism. That is no longer the case.

Buggery fandom is naught but a fad and can (indeed must) be reversed.
7 posted on 12/27/2003 5:25:49 PM PST by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: Always Right
while opinion my shift more in favor, there will never be enough support for a constitutional amendment to allow gay marriages.

A recent NY Times poll showed, to the Editorial Board's chagrin, that well OVER half of Americans rejected the idea of homosexual marriage. A large majority also expressed opposition to homosexuality as a lifestyle. This was a total shock to the Old Grey Lady which has been trying mightily to change public opinion in this regard.

If now, after several years of homosexuals on tv shows, in the movies and the tabloids, Americans are STILL not accepting of the lifestyle, I don't think that time will ever come. In fact, the more often homosexuals are portrayed in the media, the less average Americans are accepting of them.

8 posted on 12/27/2003 5:46:47 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Ronly Bonly Jones
Then they must be taught differently. The younger generations of Germany in 1930 overwhelmingly accepted antisemitism. That is no longer the case.

Comparing antisemitism and homosexuality will only tend to strengthen the younger generations view of homosexuality as a civil rights vs. bigotry issue.

9 posted on 12/27/2003 6:42:51 PM PST by LPM1888 (What are the facts? Again and again and again -- what are the facts? - Lazarus Long)
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To: *Homosexual Agenda; EdReform; scripter; GrandMoM; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping - marriage protection from News Max. Haven't read it yet...

Let me know if anyone wants on or off this ping list - just ping me~
10 posted on 12/27/2003 6:43:17 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: LPM1888
I doubt that a Constitutional Amendment banning nontraditional marriage will ever pass but even if it does it will be repealed within a generation or two. The younger generations overwhelming accept homosexuality. Banning their marriages will only cause the younger generations to rebel and accelerate their acceptance of homosexuality.

The problem with this argument is that it is akin to telling women not to fight back when someone is trying to rape them, since it's inevitable. If there are no moral absolutes, and the "progression" of societal change is inevitable (social Darwinism), then it is not only futile but wrong to try to stop change. In fact, might as well speed it up and bring on the pedophiles.

Actually, it is the duty of everyone who can distinguish right from wrong to defend what is right and fight what is wrong, not to cave in and accept rape as inevitable.

11 posted on 12/27/2003 6:47:34 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: familyop

38 states already have defense of marriage laws, and the big polls are showing overwhelming support for the Federal Marriage Amendment.

Our founders put sodomizers to death, and they obviously didn't even imagine that sodomizers would try to legitimize something like marriage between themselves and fight legitimate parents for custody of their children. Our founders would be rallying around this Amendment as we are.

AEI - Publications (written before the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act decision of Dec 03, where even J.Kennedy was correct)

Beneath the Supreme Court's many astounding decisions in its 2002-2003 term, and the shifting judicial coalitions that produced those results, runs a unifying basso continuo: Constitutional law, in the sense of judicial decisions that are guided--at least in aspiration--by the text, structure, and logic of the written Constitution, is dead. It has been replaced, often as a matter of explicit doctrine, with subjective judicial impressions of popular sentiment or political utility. Federalist Outlook, The Term the Constitution Died, Michael S. Greve,Friday, July 25, 2003

There is nothing wrong with the U.S. Constitution and nearly everything wrong with the federal judicary. Congress has the cure. They can amputate by removing jurisdiction, or use the guillotine and impeach/remove.

12 posted on 12/27/2003 6:56:53 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: LPM1888
Comparing antisemitism and homosexuality will only tend to strengthen the younger generations view of homosexuality as a civil rights vs. bigotry issue.

Try reading some history with "The Pink Swastika" by Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams. Much detail and contemperanous documentation of the intimate connection between homosexuality and the Nazis themselves and their philosophy.

It might be advisable to inform yourself before defending homosexual marriage any more.

13 posted on 12/27/2003 6:57:12 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Always Right
There is no way it would be 'repealed'. A constiutional amendment can only be repealed by another constitutional amendment, and while opinion my shift more in favor, there will never be enough support for a constitutional amendment to allow gay marriages.

Only time will tell but, based upon my observations of todays teens and young adults, 90% of them view homosexuality as being normal and acceptable. Within a couple of generations they will be the majority. That majority coupled with homosexuals framing the debate of non-traditional marriage as a civil rights issue will provide strong support for the repeal of any Constitutional Amendment concerning marriage.

14 posted on 12/27/2003 6:57:19 PM PST by LPM1888 (What are the facts? Again and again and again -- what are the facts? - Lazarus Long)
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To: Federalist 78; LPM1888
I just checked out LPM1888's profile page and this is what he/she says about homosexuality, so this explains his/her support of their agenda:

"Homosexuals

Some people seem to fear homosexuals, particularly around children. There are several homosexuals in our extended family and they have never tried to entice or otherwise seduce my children. Certainly some homosexuals have been known to do so but so have straights. I suspect the percentage of pedophiles is the same in each group. Based on sheer numbers that means that there are more straights to be watched closely than gays or lesbians.

I am also firmly convinced that genetics is a major factor in sexual determination. One of my friends who is a lesbian has bodily features that are so obviously male that she alone constitutes a very strong proof of genetic disposition. Anyone she meets knows immediately that she is a lesbian and that she didn't have any choice, she's built like a Mack Truck. I also had a male cousin who was almost a full double cousin (ours fathers were brothers and our mothers are first cousins). On his side, the only genetic lineage we do not share included an uncle who was definitely homosexual and a concert musician. My double cousin was homosexual and he said he never had a desire for a female in his life, he also was an accomplished musician and had a brief career in ballet. I on the other hand am completely straight and tone deaf. Those two people have completely convinced me about the genetic aspects of homosexuality. I am proud to have both of them as family members. "


Note to LPM1888: Just because you FEEL something to be so, based on what your imperfect eyes have seen and then computed with your imperfect (limited) mind, does not make something TRUE. If you really want to know the truth about homosexuality, you need to study. If you don't want to study, that means you don't want to know the truth.

Saying that you "know" homosexuality to be genetic, and to "know" that homosexuals are no more likely to molest children than heterosexuals, is like saying that you "know" the sun to really be flat like a plate because that's how it looks to your eyes.
15 posted on 12/27/2003 7:05:02 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: LPM1888
You are making several large assumptions to bolster your position, the first of which is that the social liberalism of the young is a static situation that does not change as they wed and produce children.

Secondly, the overwhelming majority of young folks are woefully ill informed no matter the issue. It is high time that this issue is openly debated and all possible ramifications to liberalizing, read redefining, marriage be placed on the table for one and all to ponder upon.

Thirdly, young people, as a rule, don't vote. Whether that is good or bad is up to the individual's to decide but it is none the less true.

16 posted on 12/27/2003 7:07:59 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: LPM1888
The comparison of antisemitism and homosexuality is most appropriate.

GenderCentral.com

Am I against the Gay Lobby because, as they would say, I am a hater, a Nazi, an admirer of Hitler? This is unlikely, because my wife was born in the Lida, Poland ghetto, and Nazis murdered her family. Indeed, if I oppose the Gay Lobby, it is precisely because I am deathly afraid of Hitler, and I believe that the Gay Lobby is one of those groups that will play propaganda songs until society falls asleep, and then seize power and destroy people like me. The Gay Lobby, as I see it, is not looking for Gay Rights, they are looking to seize power, like other secular radical groups. Napoleon was one of the most extreme fighters against the French monarchy until he came to power and declared himself Emperor. Rabbi David Eidensohn

UOR protests Reform clergy okay of 'Gay marriage'

April 2, 2000— The Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the United States and Canada (UOR) issued a statement today condemning the latest move by the Reform movement in the United States authorizing "Gay marriages" by Reform clergy.
Speaking for the UOR, Rabbi Yehuda Levin said: "This latest move by the Central Conference of American (Reform) Rabbis (CCAR) proves once again that Reform Judaism is not Judaism at all – it is nothing more than a pathetic parody of Judaism that makes a mockery of the sacrifices of our fathers and grandfathers, who gave their lives AL KIDDUSH HASHEM [in sanctification of His name].
"The Reform clergy does not teach Judaism – what they preach is a trendy version of the latest politically-correct new-age radicalism.
"The Reform clergy does not honor G-D. They openly defy his clearly-expressed commandments, as stated in the Holy Torah (Five Books of Moses). They pervert His Word by twisting His Law to mean the very opposite of what was intended.
"They are arrogant and dishonest. They are rebels against G-D and His people.
"They mislead their flock, who include many decent and well-meaning Jews seeking to find meaning in Judaism. Instead, they are fed a diet of fraudulent liberal hokum.
"If they retain any respect at all for their religious ancestors, they should stop insulting their holy memory by calling this strange new religion 'Judaism' and bringing shame and disrespect, a CHILLUL HASHEM [profanation of His name] , upon G-D's holy people.
"By issuing this statement, we publicly disassociate ourselves from this outrage.
"—May G-D have mercy on the remnant of His people."

 

 

17 posted on 12/27/2003 7:10:44 PM PST by Federalist 78
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To: Federalist 78
Great article. My $.02 on this issue: this is not an appropriate issue for a Constitutional amendment; any bill Congress passes should not ban gay marriage in every state, but should give states the power not to recognize marriages performed in other states. That way, the whole thing becomes a community standards issue.
18 posted on 12/27/2003 7:24:44 PM PST by ellery
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To: ellery
The problem with your proposal (which theoretically isn't bad) is that the "gay" activists and leaders, as well as their handmaidens in the media and elsewhere, have as their stated goal to remake society. They will not be satisfied with bits and pieces. They want the whole dam* pie. They want marriage not because they are into hearts and flowers, but because they want to destroy the very meaning of marriage and family, and to be able to indoctrinate children into the benefits of same sex acts from early childhood.

Sounds radical, you say? These are their stated goals, not my imagination.
19 posted on 12/27/2003 7:35:45 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Federalist 78
It would be awesome to have 60 or more Republican senators!
Do you think it can happen by 2004? 2008?
20 posted on 12/27/2003 7:38:20 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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