Posted on 06/04/2004 10:44:37 AM PDT by B Knotts
And my position stands, and I don't care what you or any other Papsist thinks: He is way beyond irrelevant when he coddles dictators. He is senile or a dupe, since he did call Tariq Aziz a "man of peace." He has no business criticizing what he perceives as American decadence, when his "church" is full of sexual predators with a penchant for boy flesh.
Take a breath and walk away.
This is as far as you are going to get with this clan.
You are either not Catholic or not Catholic enough for these types.
FACT: The percentage of child abusers among Catholic priests is between 2 and 4%, which is no different from the percentage among any other group of Christian clergy.
FACT: The most dangerous sexual predators of children, in terms of sheer numbers, are their married, heterosexual fathers. Is marriage an institution "full of sexual predators with a penchant for [child] flesh"?
He has no business criticizing what he perceives as American decadence
Oh, and this is a perfect example of the left's moral idiocy: "nobody can criticize me unless they, themselves, are perfect". The Democrats trotted out that goofy mantra when they announced that Bill Clinton's lies under oath about sex were off-limits because Newt Gingrich cheated on his wife. (Huh?)
Here's some clear thinking, something you obviously have never been exposed to: If something is wrong, it doesn't matter if the worst sinner in the world points out to you that it's wrong. IT'S STILL WRONG!.
The Pope is dead-on right in what he says. He could be Satan incarnate in the body of Adolf Hitler, for all it matters, and that wouldn't alter the moral truth of his message, any more than it would make 2+2 equal to 9 if a mathematical incompetent told you that 2+2 was 4. Morality is not a matter of opinion, but a matter of objective fact ... at least for conservatives.
Great to see that you've absorbed the DNC talking points, as vapid and stupid as they are.
|
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. |
| LUMEN GENTIUM |
| Nevertheless, the religiosity of Muslims deserves respect. It is impossible not to admire, for example, their fidelity to prayer. The image of believers in Allah who, without caring about time or place, fall to their knees and immerse themselves in prayer remains a model for all those who invoke the true God, in particular for those Christians who, having deserted their magnificent cathedrals, pray only a little or not at all. |
| "Crossing the Threshold of Hope" by Pope John Paul II |
Of course.
We've lost the idea that rights are eternal and come from God. If we reject the true basis for rights, then "rights" can be anything we want them to be. There is no middle ground.
Learn the doctrine before you criticize it.
Amen.
The sort that you advocate and defend will apparently addle what passes for the lavender canoodler's brain cells or those of their libertoonian savants as can be demonstrated by your posts.
Jorge: phobia means fear. Trust me, Jorge, I have no fear whatsoever of you or other pink poodles, self-described as you are or otherwise. That toilet plunger is right where it belongs, Jorge. It appears that in most of your social activities, Jorge, things tend to wind up in the wrong places. That is not NORMAL, Jorge, and it will never be accepted as NORMAL, Jorge. Moral truth does not change.
Again, go to your room, Jorge. Stay there.
You are not particularly feree to lie about the pope and to expect not to be verbally whacked for it.
Please prove your specific charge that JP II "condemned the war in Iraq by providing a specific quote from the pope himself and the source where you found it. The Associated Press summaries will not do. As recently as this week, AP would have had us believe that the essence of Dubya's meeting with JP II was a scolding of Bush by JP II and the transcript does NOT bear out any such thing. The quote you provide must also be from JP II and not from some underling like Renato Cardinal Martino. You did not accuse Martino. You accused JP II.
Despising the practice and advocacy of homosexuality is quite tradional in virtually all cultures and always will be, Jorge, and is hardly juvenile. Take a Socrates cocktail.
This statement is open to a lot of interpretation.
IIRC the studies I read indicate that male 'parent' abusers of children are actually NOT their blood fathers--but rather a second husband or a shack-up.
DO you have the cite for your statement?
Hiya BlackElk,
Hey, I've wondered about that myself. I don't recall any quotes by JPII himself that denounced the war in Iraq. Yet the AP and Reuters keep trumping up this idea. (I no longer trust AP/Reuters without another source).
I DO recall quotes from JPII where he called for adherence to the principles of a just war (without denouncing the Iraq war)...I interpretted this as a simple reminder from JPII to Dubya to keep doing what he was doing.
I'd be interested if Jorge comes up with a quote from JPII himself.
IIRC, the Pope's comments discouraged war somewhat strongly and (yes) pointed out the "just war" criteria. JPII was extremely concerned about 'collateral damage,' as any thinking man would be.
But I do NOT think he issued a blanket 'condemnation' of the initiative.
If you haven't used this source, www.zenit.org is an official news agency for the Vatican. They will email you a daily digest if you go to the website and request same.
Your distrust of AP is justified. One needs only look at the text of the statement of JPII to GWB last week and compare to the AP precis of same--almost two different stories.
Don't even try to tell any of us about "moral truth" when you need to resort to smearing and making personal insults against anyone who dares disagree with you.
I challenge you to show me anything I have EVER posted on these boards to support your claims above.
The fact is you can't do it.
Funny I have been called a homophobic who wants to put gays in concentration camps on message boards because of my traditional Biblical Christian views.
And on the other hand I am accused of supporting and promoting a pro-gay agenda by people like you because I don't agree with the hatemongering nonsense you post.
Unlike you I can hold moral beliefs without turning it into bigoted hatred of people.
I'll pray for you.
"A militant supporter" of homosexuality? ROFL!
I've had gay Christians describe me as a homophobic who wants to put all gays in concentration camps because of my Biblical beliefs.
And yet because I don't agree with your hatemongering you say I must be either homosexual or a militant supporter of it. Are you trying to make me laugh on purpose or what?
You can't find a single thing I've ever posted to support your hysterical accusations. NOTHING.
you understandably despise the Roman Catholic Church to which I belong. This is America. You are free to despise the RCC and I am free to despise you and the practices you indulge or support, as the case may be.
Once again, you prove you know NOTHING about me, and obviously don't even read posts before you pound out your incoherant meanspirited accusations.
I don't depise the Catholic Church at all.
I consider the RCC a genuine Christian Church and have often defended it a such against attack by my Protestant friends who consider ALL Catholics to be heretics.
Again, you show you know NOTHING about me in your lose cannon accusations.
That doesn't mean I have to agree with EVERYTHING the RCC or the Pope says EVERYDAY.
And unlike you, who can only call names and post personal insults against those who disagree with you, I can post reasonable arguments to support my positions.
Too bad you are afraid to actually address any of them directly.
"Verbally whacked"? LOL!
You've shown you are incapable of even responding directly, least of all challenge posts you disagree with.
Your definition of "verbally whack" is to post wild and hysterical accusation against those who disagree with you. Really weak!
Please prove your specific charge that JP II "condemned the war in Iraq by providing a specific quote from the pope himself and the source where you found it.
No I know why you resort to personal insults.
Your ignorance on this topic is just astounding.
Let me enlighten you;
Pope will scold Bush on Iraq, cardinal says Catholic World News | May 13, 2004
When Pope John Paul II (bio - news) meets with George W. Bush on June 4, the Pontiff will tell the US President that America has taken the wrong course in Iraq. That is what a former apostolic nuncio to the US told a leading Italian newspaper.
Cardinal Pio Laghi told Corriere della Sera that the Pope will repeat the same message that Bush "chose not to listen to" before the war. Cardinal Laghi met with President Bush in March 2003, as a personal envoy from the Pontiff, in a last-minute diplomatic effort to stop the war in Iraq.
Pope's message to Bush - war against Iraq will be 'unjust and illegal'
Houston Chronicle ^ | March 6, 2003 | BENNETT ROTH
WASHINGTON -- A Vatican envoy Wednesday carried the pope's message to the White House that a U.S.-led war against Iraq without United Nations' approval would be "unjust and illegal."
The stern words from Cardinal Pio Laghi, who met for 40 minutes with Bush, underscored the rift between the president, who considers himself a deeply religious man, and a number of Christian leaders over Iraq. Pope John Paul II has regularly preached against the war and asked Catholics worldwide to pray for peace and fast on Ash Wednesday.
Pope to Bush: Go into Iraq and you go without God
Capitol Hill Blue ^ | Mar 5, 2003 | CHB Staff and Wire Reports
Pope John Paul II has a strong message for President George W. Bush: God is not on your side if you invade Iraq. But the President is expected to tell the Pope's envoy that the leader of the world's Catholics is wrong.
The pope has said a war would be a "defeat for humanity" and that the conflict would be neither morally nor legally justified. He wants Iraq to be disarmed through methods short of military force.
Pope John Paul II may ask to personally address UN Security Council to stop Iraq war
AFP | March 3, 2003
Jean Paul II will ask to address personally to the Security Council of the United Nations if its message with the American president George W Bush does not convince it to give up a war against Iraq....
Speaking of ignorance, you are not Catholic. What do you know about the RCC, its Catechism, its Magisterium, etc.?
Paul VI once attacked the US as a perpetrator of "racist genocide" in Vietnam. This was not only factually a fantasy but it was also beyond his job description. If and when you ever familiarize yourself with the Catechism, publshed in 1983 or so, you will find that the decision to go to war must reside with a nation's leaders as the Church lacks the direct and comprehensive information to make a decision as to just war. The nation's leaders are directly responsible to God for the decisions made. You can also find a lot in the Catechism on the matter of homosexuality which is ALWAYS "inherently disordered" and NEVER morally permissible.
A supposition about the future. No direct quotations from the Pope are supplied.
Pope John Paul II has regularly preached against the war and asked Catholics worldwide to pray for peace and fast on Ash Wednesday.
You expect the Pope to serve as a cheerleader for war?
The pope has said a war would be a "defeat for humanity" and that the conflict would be neither morally nor legally justified. He wants Iraq to be disarmed through methods short of military force.
Of course, the direct quotation about 'moral/legal justification' is NOT provided.
You need to do a little better than to assemble a bunch of predictions, second- and third-party suppositions, and indirect quotations to "prove" that JPII said diddledy-squat.
A supposition about the future. No direct quotations from the Pope are supplied.
Pope John Paul II has regularly preached against the war and asked Catholics worldwide to pray for peace and fast on Ash Wednesday.
You expect the Pope to serve as a cheerleader for war?
The pope has said a war would be a "defeat for humanity" and that the conflict would be neither morally nor legally justified. He wants Iraq to be disarmed through methods short of military force.
Of course, the direct quotation about 'moral/legal justification' is NOT provided.
You need to do a little better than to assemble a bunch of predictions, second- and third-party suppositions, and indirect quotations to "prove" that JPII said diddledy-squat.
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