Sierra Club: Waiting List for Hybrid Vehicles Longer than Wait for Organ Transplants

email | 10-8-04

[supercat]

In addition, according to the EPA, the Echo gets 41 miles per gallon. At today’s gasoline price of $1.40 per gallon, the $10,770 cost savings the Echo offers will buy 7,692 gallons of gas. Those 7,692 gallons of gas, at 41 miles per gallon, will carry the Echo 315,372 miles. If one drives 10,000 miles per year, the Echo’s savings will be evident for the next 31.5 years. Also, the Echo only has one battery to toss in the land fill at the end of its useful life. Perhaps consumers who avoid today’s hybrid cars are not so ignorant after all.

If the Echo gets 40mpg and the Prius 50, that means that the Echo will use one extra gallon per 200 miles. At $2/gallon (more recent price), that translates into an extra $0.01/mile of fuel cost. So making up for the $10,000 savings in price would require driving 1,000,000 miles (assuming the Prius did not require any extra maintenance like battery changes).

[John Jamieson]

Really Miller cycle, but hybrid manuacturers call it Atkinson. Does help, but Atkinson must be turning over in his grave.

[John Jamieson]

Neither Bush or Kerry is goin' to tell the American people that the only route to affordable energy Independence and cleaner air is: Nuclear power plants making "synfuels" from CO2 and H20.

[supercat]

Really Miller cycle, but hybrid manuacturers call it Atkinson. Does help, but Atkinson must be turning over in his grave.

Ah, that name I recognize, whether justly or not. The pseudo-throttle approach I was mentioning was based upon that. Are there any regulatory difficulties posed by the fact that some exhaust gasses will be pushed into the intake manifold?

[supercat]

Neither Bush or Kerry is goin' to tell the American people that the only route to affordable energy Independence and cleaner air is: Nuclear power plants making "synfuels" from CO2 and H20.

Actually, biomass seems to have potential as well, if one uses it in forms that don't require excessive processing (and especially if one uses it in forms that would otherwise be waste).

[Syncro]

The whole hybrid thingie is a farce, as is noted in your post.

The batteries cost between $5-10,000 to replace and will need it in 5 years or so. And the old batteries?

Kind of serious hazardous material to dispose of. More money there.

What with the original purchase price and all things considered they are only a way for the Liberals to constrain our mobility.

And put us in little tin cans that will mash up real easy at a 5mph fender bender.

I did a retrofit on my Suburban and now get 230 MPG.

When it gets up to cruizing speed (60 or higher) it switches over to 1,000 rechargeable AAA batteries and uses no gas whatsoever.

If I need to pass someone, I have a Turbo Switch that runs on Tetrohydrocloridine
which I purchase in little tabs (kept in a pez dispenser) from the Institute of Phenomonology for $.00003 each.

All seriousness aside, the E-85 ethanol was mentioned. Where does it come from?

Corn, etc?

The cost to grow the crops and to convert it to fuel will cost oh...about $2 per gallon or MORE.

Feed the corn to the cows, drill for oil in Alaska and off the coast and see the USA in Your Chevrolet as the old ad said...

Oh BTW JJ, what the heck does all of this have to do with that low-carb diet guy????

[supercat]

The cost to grow the crops and to convert it to fuel will cost oh...about $2 per gallon or MORE.

Growing crops for the purpose of producing ethanol for automotive use seems crazy to me. Growing cops for the purpose of producing ethanol for other uses... [smirk]

Biodiesel, however, seems like a much more reasonable concept if, as I understand, it can be produced from biomass that would otherwise be regarded as waste.

Growing corn, taking the "good part", and converting to to ethanol for automotive use while throwing the rest away is crazy. But growing corn, using the good part for food and/or 'people' ethanol, while using the rest to produce biodiesel seems to make a lot more sense.

[Charlotte Corday]

I just can't help wondering what sort of articles appear in Green Car Journal

"Freeway On Ramp Worries? Take Your Time, They'll Slow Down For You"

"America's Ten Best Downhill Stretches"

"The Tow Rope: Your Battery's Friend In Need"

[oceanview]

I don't know why there is so much hybrid bashing here. they are not for everyone, there use should not be mandated, but people should be able to buy one if they want. perhaps some minds will change when gas is $3 a gallon.

[John Jamieson]

The crossover point is about $10 a gallon if you do a careful calculation.

[Celtic Rose]

Yeah, but I think most people want Hybrids to save on gas, not to save the environment. I know that that is why my parents got one, they are hoping that it will be cheaper in the long run.

[oceanview]

based on the cost of battery replacement? that will come down over time, especially as they sell more of them.

we should have had gradual CAFE increases over the last 15 years - there are still some very inefficient gas engines out there, no r&d to being ligher weight composites in, etc.

[B4Ranch]

Diesel is $2.19 in Reno, Nevada today.

[John Jamieson]

They are going to be very disappointed if they count the extra cost of the car. Hope they can get rid of it before the battery quits.

[John Jamieson]

Has the price of portable PC batteries gone down? Same technology only 50 times bigger.

[oceanview]

hasn't it? laptops get cheaper every year. so do cordless power tools.

[John Jamieson]

Digi-Key Part Number P019T-ND Price Break
1
10
100
500
1500
4800 Unit Price
19.05000
17.14500
15.24000
11.43000
10.13460
9.71550 Price
19.05
171.45
1524.00
5715.00
15201.90
46634.40
Manufacturer Part Number HHR-650DA08
Description BATTERY NIMH 1.2V 6500MAH W/TAB
Quantity Available 0 - Value Added Item
All prices are in US dollars

Doesn't look like they have changed much to me in the last two years. 192? in the Prius.

[oceanview]

there will be technological innovation in this area. in 1973, if you had asked the auto industry if they would have been able to meet the emission standards in today's cars - they would have said it was impossible. then, somsone invented catalytic converters, oxygen sensors, electronic engine management, variable valve timing, etc, etc.

[Old Professer]

Since organs can only be harvested from those who show no brain function, it hardly seems to matter how long the donor list might be for individuals such as this whose needs are obviously outside the existing parameters.

[Old Professer]

What are you going to do while it warms up?