Louisiana, 12 Other States Agree to Raise High School Standards

Baton Rouge, LA, Morning Advocate ^ | 02-28-05 | Feller, Ben, AP Education Writer

[mommadooo3]

How many we going to need?

How many WHAT we going to need?

I know of one girl who tried it. Her mom was a drunk that made her take care of the kids. Some mothers have to work and can't be home.

Care to clarify that?

Do they have homeschooling materials for parents who don't speak English?

YES, they DO.

[Smartaleck]

"Have you not educated yourself about what goes on in public schools?"

Yes I have, on many levels and sources.

"How old are you, and do you have any children?"

Why do you need to know and why is it any of your business?

[Smartaleck]

"I guess the only reason would be that you of approve the indoctrination hellholes schools have become. Although I hope you don't."

You assume too much and you know what assuming does?

My views are this.
Public schools aren't by any means perfect.
Some are quite good and it's stupid, ignorance or as you say people haven't educated themselves on public education.
Broad-brushing all public schools as bad is incorrect and disingenuous to any attempts at a dialog about the state of education.
We have a lot invested in them and it only makes sense to try to improve where possible.
Homeschooling is great for some and some do quite well with it. It isn't for everyone.
20% homeschoolers attend public schools part time. Why, what will be done with those kids if public schools are no more?
What should be done with kids who come from homes with parents who are incapable of homeschooling....They're dumb as a box of rocks, or single parent homes where the parent must work?
True public schools do have crime problems, what institution doesn't? Public schools do have their share of pedophiles. However, some %70 of pedophiles crimes are committed by someone the victim or his family knows. Are we to presume somehow a homeschooled kid is immune from perverts?
Rather than just griping about the condition of public schools, griping about the political leanings of some teachers and the NEA, why aren't Conservatives manning those positions and positions of leadership to effect change?

[Smartaleck]

"How many WHAT we going to need?"

Homeshoolers. If we do away with public education something is going to have to replace it, so how many homeschools or teachers will we need?

By the way, %20 of homeshoolers also use public education. Any idea why and what will be done with those kids if there are no public teachers?

"Care to clarify that?" What's to clarify? Some parents are incapable of homeschooling.

[esoxmagnum]

"Rather than just griping about the condition of public schools, griping about the political leanings of some teachers and the NEA, why aren't Conservatives manning those positions and positions of leadership to effect change?


--In many urban areas, those that are controlled by the dems, such as Chicago and New York, school board candidates are endorsed or not endorsed by the Teachers Union. Getting endorsed gets you time in the newspapers (The Sun Times and the Tribune). The teachers union backing of a board official (either elected or appointed) is a shoe-in. Not many of us have the spare dollars to mount a campaign against the money-tree of the taxpayer-supported Teachers Unions. Also, most low income people either vote straight ticket democrat in urban areas, or they don't turn out to vote, thus, keeping those in office, in office.

When conservatives do get on boards, they are often shut out, ignored, or voted down by the majority. One conservative voice on a school board of Operation PUSH operatives is a pebble in an ocean.

---

"Broad-brushing all public schools as bad is incorrect and disingenuous to any attempts at a dialog about the state of education."

No one is broad-brushing all schools, we all readily admit there are pockets of sanity. Just like cancer, perhaps there are some areas that are not infected. But like all diseases, the cure must be holistic in nature. We must examine what has caused the cancer, what prompted the cancer to spread, what can be done to stop the spread of the cancer, and what can ultimately be done to cure the cancer.

There is probably no way to tackle this problem on an individual school basis. Amputating the cancerous schools may be a short term panacea, but not a long term cure. Major reforms in every area from the way we staff our schools, to compensation, to unions, to parental involvement, to lawsuits, to sports, to testing, etc, must take place.

We cannot simply exclude "your school" from the oversight that we as taxpayers wish to put in place. If things are fine and dandy in your school, I understand quite well the fear you have to change. But, I don't understand how weakening the Unions, examining pay structure and tenure, examining tax districting and the like effects your school in particular.

Perhaps its time for you to ask yourself those questions, and ask why it is that you are against home schoolers, against private schoolers and against school reform. Only by asking yourself those questions will you understand your own bias against those who wish to catalyst change in our public school system. We cannot examine your particular situation, we can only relate our own to you, and in doing so, you seem to "broadbrush" everyone else as ninnies, for the sake of preserving your own Mayberry.

[mommadooo3]

Homeshoolers

Hmmmmm.

How about if public shools are REPLACED with shools that teach readin', 'riting, and 'rithmatic? Maybe even a little SPELLING tossed in.

You say that 20% of homeshoolers ALSO use public education. That's intriguing. Would you please post your sources ...for 'reference and research'?

WHAT I asked you to clarify, was your paragraph that you knew a girl who tried homeshooling. That her mother was a drunk who made her take care of the kids.......THEN, in your NEXT 'breath', you say that some mothers have to work and can't be home........

That paragraph of yours is open to MANY, MANY interpretations. SO, 'splain it' (clarify)

[Smartaleck]

"Perhaps its time for you to ask yourself those questions, and ask why it is that you are against home schoolers, against private schoolers and against school reform."

You obviously haven't reading MY post if you think I'm against homeschoolers, against private schoolers and the last one.........sheesh.......you just gave a slew of objections to what I see as part of the school reform!!!

[Smartaleck]

"How about if public *******shools

---

are REPLACED with shools that teach readin', 'riting, and 'rithmatic?"

All of them fail to do so?

"WHAT I asked you to clarify, was your paragraph that you knew a girl who tried homeshooling. That her mother was a drunk who made her take care of the kids.......THEN, in your NEXT 'breath', you say that some mothers have to work and can't be home........"

In both cases the parent isn't available to provide homeschooling. (Incompetence or not enough available time.)

Reference:
There's quite a bit of info here. Tables at the bottom of the page too.
http://nces.ed.gov/nhes/homeschool/

[mommadooo3]

Thank you for providing your source/link....I'll be reading there.

[stuck_in_new_orleans]

Then entire N.O. apparatus is in big trouble if they, the powers that be, don't get the school system fixed and soon!

Pfffttt! My friend, the NO school system is BEYOND trouble and has been quietly resting in the "Pathetic" stage. The city has been in trouble for quite some time and with every generation the citys hope of prosperity(sp?) just gets another foot deeper in the grave.

[esoxmagnum]

My mistake, I was reading while distracted, and knee jerked to what I thought was another attack on homeschoolers, private schoolers, and reformers. I should have read more carefully.

As far as the changes that we can implement, the first thing we need to do is eliminate government unions on all fronts, or hold them to the same campaign contribution limits that corporations are limited to in the least, and in the best, forbid government unions from contributing or endorsing any political candidate.

I'm not saying do away with the unions, but this is the start. Take away their ability to put people in power and to manipulate the system, reduce them to managing benefits packages and organizing on a local level only.

There is no logical explanation that allows our tax dollars (teachers salaries) to fund a union that buys politicians (on both sides, but mostly dem).

[old and tired]

My own fear for homeschooling my children derives from how uncharacteristically horrible I am at mathematics.

My daughter homeschools. She herself has always excelled at Math. She has worked out an arrangement with another homeschooling mom who's not so good at Math. She meets with this mom's kids 3 times a week and is available via the Internet and phone for assistance most other times. It's an arrangement that works out very well for both families.

The other mother has said her children benefit by needing to be able to frame their questions in an email. Often times, just considering how to phrase the question will give the children the answer.

[ladylib]

People who can't afford to homeschool or send their kids to private schools depend on the public school system -- but you know that already, right?

[Prolifeconservative]

The New Orleans stench is now affecting Jefferson Parish. Jeff Parish is having trouble growing their sales tax base as more and more consumers are staying away from either area in my opinion. But the tax base is another problem altogether that New Orleans will have to deal with in addition to their brain drain.

Are you really stuck in New Orleans? Ever thought about moving across the lake???

[Smartaleck]

"we need to do is eliminate government unions on all fronts...I'm not saying do away with the unions,"

That's rather difficult to follow?

Unions can be a pain in the butt in any industry. They're numbers are falling, but that's because of competition in the industry and disenchantment by their members.

The most likely way that the NEA will become less powerful is if they are faced with competition.....homeschools, vouchers, ability of parents to move their kids to higher performing schools etc.

It is for these reasons that I think the public would do well to highlight and broadcast the merits of the good schools private and public.

Faced with the embarrassment of protecting the incompetent and continued dissatisfaction by the public is the best motivation for them to change in my opinion.

[Smartaleck]

"People who can't afford to homeschool or send their kids to private schools depend on the public school system -- but you know that already, right?"

Yes, I do which is why I advocate improving them and not doing away with them all together as some would.

Those that do produce a good education are to be lauded and not lumped in with the poor performing schools.

Just because GM makes a few lemons doesn't necessarily mean all of the car models they make are bad. Those that would abandon GM altogether and advocate buying only ...say Toyotas....do a disservice to GM and its workers who are doing a good job.

[justshutupandtakeit]

You are wrong because there are thousands of excellent public schools all over the nation some of which are unique. Broad brush generalizations are rarely accurate.

You are wrong because >95% of the troops serving our country are public school grads thus indicate the quality of people which attend them.

Now if a parent takes no regard of the failures of their schools and does nothing to rectify them then you could be right.

My children attended private and public schools and their mom was a public school teacher so I am fully aware of the strengths and weaknesses of both.

[esoxmagnum]

"Just because GM makes a few lemons doesn't necessarily mean all of the car models they make are bad. Those that would abandon GM altogether and advocate buying only ...say Toyotas....do a disservice to GM and its workers who are doing a good job."

---

I would lump all of GM together myself. Or Ford for that matter. Its not only the fact that they make a poor car in comparison, its that the company as a whole moves to cover it up, and that the company on a whole rakes its customers with poor customer service, high prices, and it seeks to squelch competition in the repair business with onboard computers that only GM can service.

No one is blaming the assembly line worker who tries (ironically, my family worked for GM for years, and they were prohibited from trying, but thats a whole nother story), we are blaming the unions that force them into lethargy, and we are blaming the policy makers at large, at the higher end of the food chain.

If blame is to be laid, and there are concerned about a few "good working teachers", those teachers need to step forward and speak out. Those teachers need to get on the bandwagon now and become a catalyst for change, and become the leaders of the new schools.

It is not acceptable enough to sit by as an educator for fear of losing your job, or standing out, and allowing these things to happen. Those who want my sympathy, need to get on this side of the fence and also speak up and demand changes. They must distinguish themselves from the status quo pack, now, before the school revolution begins.

But, what will happen, is once the ball gets rolling, every teacher in America will proclaim "I was always for reform!"

"Sure ya were, but where were you when we needed you?", would me reply to them when that day comes.

[ladylib]

How would you improve the public schools?

[esoxmagnum]

"Unions can be a pain in the butt in any industry. They're numbers are falling, but that's because of competition in the industry and disenchantment by their members."

---

A pain in the butt? I will not tolerate a pain in the butt in public service. Public service is just that. If someone doesn't like it, go to the private sector. Period.

Teaches should have no right to strike, no right to be guaranteed wages free from competition, no right to tenure, no right to have a job free of outside review, no right to have a job free of standards and repercussions.

These are public employees, and they should be treated as such.

When its time to vote on tax referendums to raise property taxes, all around the neighborhood they post "Its FOR the KIDS!", but where is that call for our kids when its time to strike over an increase of 10 bucks a month for dental care? Do they suddenly forget that they work FOR THE KIDS?

Where is the outrage when they then take that additional tax money, and vote themselves raises above and beyond the COLA for the year, with nice bonuses for step pay in there as well? They can gobble up all that "FOR THE KIDS" money without a single iota of shame, because after all, they are not there FOR THE KIDS, if they were, they would be refusing to accept those raises in cash stripped districts. Now its about THEM. At least until the next referendum comes along, then its FOR THE KIDS again.

Talk to any teacher and they will always exclaim that they were against the pay raises. So, how is it that if every teacher is against the pay raises, they keep getting passed?

Its like congressional pay raises. Everyone voted against them, yet somehow, the bills keep passing. Amazing! It must be magic.

And on and on it goes.