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Teaching Darwin
Weekly Standars ^ | March 21, 2005 | Paul McHugh

Posted on 03/22/2005 6:56:35 AM PST by metacognative

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To: Terriergal
Why, teaching kids to reason would undermine their socialist agenda. How can Publick screwels be right in evolution but wrong in all their other agendas? (2+2 = 5, ok if that's the answer that makes you feel good...)

Well this is certainly odd. The battle cry of the creationists is "present all sides, even if our side has nothing to do with science" and "let the children decide." This is, of course, a thinly disguised variation of the very "children's self-esteem" agenda you are decrying above.

"Feel good" curricula is no more appropriate in science classes than it is in math or history.

41 posted on 03/22/2005 8:22:44 AM PST by atlaw
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To: PatrickHenry
wild claims that Darwin is responsible for communism

it goes hand in hand. It justifies doing whatever you want to your fellow man, so it is not surprising that ideologies like Communism will adopt it.

42 posted on 03/22/2005 8:23:39 AM PST by Terriergal (What is the meaning of life?? Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him for ever.)
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At the level of DNA, humans and chimpanzees differ by a mere 1 percent, yet the chimpanzee is not 99 percent human in body, brain, or mental faculties--far from it.

I don't know where to begin with this article, so I'll start with this little gem.

The idea presented here is that there is a linear relationship between the number of base pairs in a genome and morphology, or the shape an animal takes. This implies to me that the author lacks understanding of molecular biology and genetics. I am not a molecular biologist, but I seem to recall from my biology classes that the expression of genes and construction of proteins does not work in a linear fashion. Furthermore, the science of comparitive genomics has shown that the chimpanzee has less DNA in common with homo sapiens than we originally thought, though it still remains are closest cousin.

To me, making this point constitutes nothing more than a rhetorical trick to insert some figures into an argument, but the figures don't really mean anything significant.

43 posted on 03/22/2005 8:24:45 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Terriergal
Well that's so special. I don't see evidence anywhere of evolution, nor global warming. IN fact I see evidence everywhere of design. So why is it that some people look at the same thing and come to different conclusions AT ALL LEVELS OF EDUCATION?

Well, what can I say, we disagree. I'm not going to try and convince you (which I imagine would be impossible anyway)nor will I be baited into relating our opinions to intelligence.

44 posted on 03/22/2005 8:25:20 AM PST by GreenFreeper
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To: Terriergal
OOOOH so we were naked and slow and helpless and STUPID and STILL managed to survive? Wow that's amazing! Evolution really IS magical!

Not at all. Our ape ancestors started as tree-dwellers. They had fur and were quite agile. However, a group of our ancestors ended up living on the savannah, where the mutations for endurance, hairlessness, upright walking and intelligence were more advantageous than the alternatives. Gorillas and chimps, our nearest relatives, life primarily in the jungle. They'd be easy food for the predators that live on the savannah.

45 posted on 03/22/2005 8:26:40 AM PST by Modernman ("They're not people, they're hippies!"- Cartman)
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To: balrog666
Why is it that psychiatrists are nuts?

I takes one to know one...

46 posted on 03/22/2005 8:27:41 AM PST by longshadow
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To: atlaw
uhh.... nope. I have no problem with presenting kids with FACTS. (e.g. 2+2 = 5) but science nowadays does not do that. I have NO problem with teaching evolution AND creation. In fact I regularly make my kids watch evolution specials on PBS and they have it in their Christian school textbooks. But I present both sides.

I said nothing about making the 'kid feel good.' IN fact, Creationism tends to do the opposite by implying there might be Someone out there more powerful than men. That tends to make people feel bad about ... things they should feel bad about. So far I have one girl that understands my point, and one that probably could care less. So it's not that I'm indoctrinating them very successfully when I have got a 50/50 success percentage. (the youngest is too young to understand yet).

47 posted on 03/22/2005 8:28:06 AM PST by Terriergal (What is the meaning of life?? Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him for ever.)
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To: Terriergal
it goes hand in hand. It justifies doing whatever you want to your fellow man, so it is not surprising that ideologies like Communism will adopt it.

Nonsense. Scientific theories do not give moral guidance. They are, in the purest sense of the word, ammoral. Scientific theories explain a discrete slice of reality, nothing more.

Is chemistry responsible for the use of Zyklon B in the death camps?

48 posted on 03/22/2005 8:29:22 AM PST by Modernman ("They're not people, they're hippies!"- Cartman)
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To: metacognative
Let's see the "God's work" quote. I have a little fun time today.

Hitler's Religion:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."5  Mein Kampf.

49 posted on 03/22/2005 8:29:51 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: PatrickHenry
Darwinism helped to justify not only the ruthless exploits of the communists, but also the ruthless practices of capitalist monopolists such as Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller.

LOL

If it's bad, Darwin's responsible for it.

50 posted on 03/22/2005 8:30:37 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Junior
You need the creationism quote. In his own words:
For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. Whoever destroys His work wages war against God's Creation and God's Will.
-- Adolph Hitler, creationist
Source: Book 2, Chapter 10, Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler.
Discussed at Adolf Hitler's Religion.
51 posted on 03/22/2005 8:33:49 AM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: Terriergal

Schools should stick to reading, writing, and arithmetic. I can't imagine that a "feel bad" curriculum would be any improvement over a "feel good" curriculum.


52 posted on 03/22/2005 8:34:36 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Junior

He was a darwinite!
""A folkish state must therefore begin by raising marriage from the level of a continuous defilement of the race, and give it the consecration of an institution which is called upon to produce images of the Lord and not monstrosities halfway between man and ape."27 (Hitler believed that Aryans are holy and were created in God's "image", while other races evolved from apes, hence his hatred for racial mixing because it diluted God's image).


53 posted on 03/22/2005 8:37:39 AM PST by metacognative (eschew obfuscation)
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To: PatrickHenry
Thanks. He asked for the "God's work" quote specifically. I should've included both, though, for completeness.

Of course, I don't hold out hope that he'll get the point that quotes are worthless in this debate.

54 posted on 03/22/2005 8:38:00 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: metacognative
Baby Jesus cried when he read your post
So, what does our history tell us? Three things. First, if the claim is that all contemporary evolutionism is merely an excuse to promote moral and societal norms, this is simply false. Today's professional evolutionism is no more a secular religion than is industrial chemistry. Second, there is indeed a thriving area of more popular evolutionism, where evolution is used to underpin claims about the nature of the universe, the meaning of it all for us humans, and the way we should behave. I am not saying that this area is all bad or that it should be stamped out. I am all in favor of saving the rainforests. I am saying that this popular evolutionism--often an alternative to religion--exists. Third, we who cherish science should be careful to distinguish when we are doing science and when we are extrapolating from it, particularly when we are teaching our students. If it is science that is to be taught, then teach science and nothing more. Leave the other discussions for a more appropriate time.
Michael Ruse, Science 299, 1523 - 1524

55 posted on 03/22/2005 8:38:36 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (Intelligent design is the planned economy: natural selection is the free market)
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To: metacognative

Sounds a lot like certain other creationists' attitudes toward evo types.


56 posted on 03/22/2005 8:39:08 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Liberal Classic
If it's bad, Darwin's responsible for it.

Of course. There was no evil in the world before 1859, when Darwin published Origin of Species. No war, no racism, no communism (well, maybe a little bit, like in Sparta, the Plymouth Plantation, etc.), no poverty, no disease, no tyranny, no crime. Darwin has destroyed us all.

57 posted on 03/22/2005 8:39:11 AM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: Modernman
Is chemistry responsible for the use of Zyklon B in the death camps?

You had to say this, didn't you. The chemistry textbook stickers are now on their way to Kansas.

58 posted on 03/22/2005 8:39:16 AM PST by atlaw
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To: PatrickHenry

Considering that neoconservatives are descendents of communists, it is not surprising to see them want to challenge evolution. Perhaps they have a soft spot for Lysenko as well as Trotsky. They're not right about much so they might as well join the bandwagon of losers of ID.


59 posted on 03/22/2005 8:39:54 AM PST by ValenB4
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To: munchtipq
"I'll tell ya, I'm a liberal"

Why does it not surprise me that a liberal is on a ping list for 'conservative' evolution believers?

60 posted on 03/22/2005 8:40:09 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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