CLEOPATRA WAS A BLONDE - (terrific brief history of Egypt's rich past; optimistic democratic future)

TO THE POINT.COM ^ | MARCH 24, 2005 | DR. JACK WHEELER

[SunkenCiv]

A Blast from the Past. Not pinging the list, just adding to the catalog.

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[yarddog]

Ramses the Great had red wavy hair.

[ZULU]

I don't know whether or not Cleopatra was a blonde, but to assume she was because she was Greek doesn't make any sense.

Ancient Greeks and Romans were blonde and brown-haired and black-haired, with the latter two probably predominating. As a member of the Ptolemaic Dynasty, she was Greek, not Ancient Egyptian by race. But interestingly enough, she was the first and only Ptolemaic ruler in several hundred years who even bothered to learn ancient Egyptian and read hieroglyphs. She thought of herself as Egyptian and greatly admired Ancient Egypt and its culture.

There is some controversy today as to whether or not she actually committed suicide with a cobra (asp) or was murdered at the order of Octavian. But it would indeed have been fitting that the Cobra, which was the symbolic and religious protector of the rulers of lower Egypt as the god Wadjet, might have spared Cleopatra from an ignominious part in Octavian's triumphal procession.

As for the Ancient Egyptians themselves, they were for the most part Caucasian "Mediterranean" types like the modern Berbers who are not black Africans. However, the Ancient Egyptians had large numbers of Kushites - black Africans from modern day Sudan - in their military forces, at least one dynasty was from Kush, and there were marriage and trading relationships with their neighbors in Kush so there was a strong black African element in the population also.

But to an ancient Egyptian, color was probably not a concern. They looked at the world through the perspective of Egyptians and barbarous non-Egyptians, not black and white.

[Melas]

Modern greeks are more mediterranean than ancient greeks? Perhaps you'd like to rethink this statement.

[Revolting cat!]

Blonde indeed!

[zot]

Thanks for the ping.

[zot]

Ramses the Great had red wavy hair.

I don't remember noticing that about Ramses the Great, but I do remember seeing all colors or skin and hair in reproductions of Egyptian paintings.

[yarddog]

The French have his body and studied it using an electron microscope. They noted his hair was dyed with henna and had assumed it was really some other color but after examining the roots they say he had red wavy hair. I don't know how they can determine that but the are certain of it.

Interestingly, King David is also said to have had red hair.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Here ya go.

[happyathome]

Nope, meant what I said. By "more mediterranean" what I meant was more reflective of the mix of cultures and races that the med area is today.

Since Ptolemy's time, Romans, Anatolians, Celts, Germans, Arabs, Slavs, Venetians, Normans and Turks have all invaded and/or settled in parts or all of what is modern Greece. Today's Greeks are simply not the same people as those of Ptolemy's day - they're a mix of lots of peoples who live around the med, and are, hence, "more mediterranean" than the ancient Greeks were.

[SunkenCiv]

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[Nikas777]

On the subject of the Greeks being blond, The classical Greeks are generally said to have been light haired and the current coloring is likely due to having been over run repeatedly by Turks and other dark haired people. Dark hair is, I think, a dominant trait.

AntiBurr, that is a 19th century and early 20th century lie. You should update yourself.

Here is a scientific (and by that I mean an academic non racialist, non neo-nazi) website that lists the DNA of Greeks and Italians and others.

http://racialreality.110mb.com/greeks.html

It's been said that modern Greeks are racially different from their ancient predecessors, having over the centuries mixed with slaves and foreigners, including Negroids, and lost an allegedly Nordic character. The scientific data, however, shows tremendous continuity and near purity among Greeks, as well as a virtual absence of Nordic racial elements since the beginning of Greek history.

"It is inaccurate to say that the modern Greeks are different physically from the ancient Greeks; such a statement is based on an ignorance of the Greek ethnic character.... The Greeks, in short, are a blend of [sub]racial types, of which two are most important: the Atlanto-Mediterranean and the Alpine. Dinaricism here is present, but not all pervading; true Alpines are commoner than complete Dinarics. The Nordic element is weak, as it probably has been since the days of Homer. The racial type to which Socrates belonged [Alpine] is today the most important, while the Atlanto-Mediterranean, prominent in Greece since the Bronze Age, is still a major factor. It is my personal reaction to the living Greeks that their continuity with their ancestors of the ancient world is remarkable, rather than the opposite." (Coon, 1939)

PS: Greeks are to be found with all hair colors and eye colors - If you read Homer you would know this since he identifies people by physical characteristics.

Look at the DNA cluster. The Greeks are grouped close to the Basques. Since the Greeks were one of the first Indo-European speaking tribes to settle in Europe their mixture with the native inhabitants of Europe (the ancestors of Basques of today) explains much.

[Nikas777]

I just realized how old this post was! LOL! I followed a link by SunkenCiv thinking it was contemporary. Noob mistake.

[SunkenCiv]

Here, just for owning up to that, I’ll let you hold this basket of figs.

[SunkenCiv]

The face of Cleopatra: Scientists recreate the first true image of the legendary beauty
DailyMail.uk | 15th December 2008 | Fiona Macrae
Posted on 12/15/2008 9:59:29 AM PST by yankeedame
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2149098/posts